RE: Re: Solar PV ?

[Marcus Warrington <marcus.warrington@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Peter,


=D8  Thanks for the offer re Sunny Beam.

=D8  Since it would only work in the garage, I think I'll pass!!

Bahh.. that's not in the spirit of HAUK is it... not buying a bargain
price=
d gadget just because it will spend its life shut away in a garage , or
mor=
e often a cupboard in most cases , tut tut.. ;)

I was speaking to my installer about my concerns on the Bluetooth's range
a=
nd he says that they can log into the inverter and up the gain on the
trans=
mitter from the standard 14dB to the maximum 20db. He recons at 20dB it
sho=
uld be good for 100M, if your supplier hasn't done this already it may be
w=
orth asking them to do it for you.

My intention would be to have the server grab the data from the inverter,
s=
ave it as historical data for reporting and also broadcast it as a xAP
mess=
age on the network. This way I could see the current usage on any PC or
dev=
ice such as the O2 Joggler :)


=D8  1. Is his IP switched socket a homebrew thing or are there
commerciall=
y available units?

It's a commercial unit although I'm not sure exactly which one, but
somethi=
ng like this ;
http://www.ambery.com/reposw.html
If you google "IP controlled Power Strip" you'll get lots of
hits. I'm not =
sured how much he paid for his but I don't think it was cheap (~=A3300 ?)

I would have thought that "we" could do something very similar
(and much ch=
eaper) using a cheap radio controlled remote socket (byebye standbye?) 
and=
a RFXCom tramsitter on the PC http://www.rfxcom.com/transmitters.htm

I think he was getting the consumption figures using the now defunct
Google=
PowerMeter. In my case I'm already using an OWL clamp + transmitter and ha=
ve already writtem a VB application to grab this data using the "OWL
Connec=
t" usb receiver (=A38 from eBay) , and am then transmitting my usage
via xA=
P to other machines in the house. It should be releatively straight
forward=
to have an program listen for the usage xAP message, compare it against th=
e inverters current generation figure and then have it send a suitable
on/o=
ff signal via the RFXCom device.

Of course, ideally, I'd like to junk the OWL (which isn't that accurate)
an=
d get my electricty company to put in a smart meter than I could then get
m=
ore accurate figures from, but when I asked them about it they wouldn't do
=
it for free and wanted silly money to do it :(

Marcus

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of P=
eter + Jane
Sent: 15 July 2011 10:27
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Solar PV ?



Marcus
Thanks for the offer re Sunny Beam.
Since it would only work in the garage, I think I'll pass!!
House is a new selfbuild. Garage is attached.
Dect phones work everywhere. So does OWL and
Efergy and Siemens dect handset bluetooth. SMA
bluetooth can't make it through the garage to kitchen wall.
I'm happy with real time display on the computer
in the study (other end of house from garage). Good ol' usb.

As if to prove I am reaching my knowledge limits,
two questions re your colleague's setup.

1. Is his IP switched socket a homebrew thing or
are there commercially available units?
2. What current clamp meter does he use and what
form does the data capture in the pc take? I have
only found proprietory devices like owl where the
clamp talks to the device (real time) and the
device to the pc (download, not real time). What
I would like is two clamps that connect direct to
my network (generation and consumption). Then I
could calculate import and export (no point using
a clamp for that as it wouldn't know the
difference) and ultimately switch things on accordingly.

Appreciate any leads you can provide.
Rgds
Peter

At 09:23 15/07/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>Peter,
>
>=D8 Next option is a Sunny Beam display (groovy
>looking) which has usb download. Needs to be in
>bluetooth range. Costs a bit under =A3200.
>
>Actually my installer can get the SunnyBeams for
>about =A3100 + vat , so I could get them for =A3105
>if I order as part of my install (5% vat) or
>=A3120 (20% vat) if I order later. I am tempted to
>get one just to see, especially as I watched one
>sell on eBay for =A3148 last week !
>
>If you were interested in getting one then I
>could get my installer to order an extra one for you.
>
>Thanks for the clarification on Sunny Explorer,
>sounds like if I'm just wanting the CSV's there won't be a problem.
>
>One of my Directors here at work has a SolarPV
>array fitted and has rigged up a IP switched
>socket (global cache) to a ~2KW immersion tank.
>He then uses a current clamp meter (like the
>OWL) connected to a PC and if his generation
>exceed his cosumption by ~2KW he automatically
>sends a HTTP request to the switch to turn on the immersion heater.
>
>Marcus
>
>From:
><mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40ya=
hoogroups.com>
>[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf=
Of Peter + Jane
>Sent: 15 July 2011 06:30
>To: <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%=
40yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Solar PV ?
>
>Hi Marcus
>I am sort of relieved to hear this. My conclusion
>was that a cabled connection was prohibitively
>expensive, and I was wondering if there was a
>cheaper option than the webbox that I had missed.
>Next option is a Sunny Beam display (groovy
>looking) which has usb download. Needs to be in
>bluetooth range. Costs a bit under =A3200.
>Sunny Explorer software is free.
>It doesn't crash or lose connection, it just does odd things.
>It has quite nice graphics (histograms
>day/month/year). It allows interrogation and
>option setting. It shows a lot of settings data
>and running data (voltages, frequency etc). I like it for all that.
>When you log on it always starts from no data and
>has to download everything (so it doesn't
>remember historical data, for example). So nyou
>have to wait. My solution...stay logged on.
>The histograms are nice (I can send sample screenshots if you want)
>What is strange is that for monthly data, for
>example, it might have the odd day with nothing.
>Or the odd day with a spuriously high figure.
>These data must be stored in the inverter in a
>different file from the downloadable csv data. My
>experience is the csv data are always correct. So
>the missing day or the high figure will not be in
>the csv data! I thought it may be my inverter
>(4000TL), but a neighbour finds the same.
>The sample rate for the csv data is much more
>frequent than the histogram stuff, which in turn
>is much better than the histogram displayed on
>the front panel of the inverter. With it you can
>change passwords for inverter access. Pity it doesn't remember them!
>I use an Efergy display (retired when I got an
>Owl+USB) then brought out of retirement. I
>insisted on a separate small consumer unit for
>connection of inverter output upstream of my
>house consumer units (6 of them :-[). There is or
>was a practice of connecting solar input on a
>spare way in the normal house consumer unit. My
>view was that consumer unit mcbs are for output.
>I thought that was a bad idea as consumption and
>generation couldn't be separated for measuring. I
>also question the safety of a consumer unit that
>could be live when the isolator switch is off.
>Installer's arguement is that the inverter cuts out if no mains is
detecte=
d.
>So I download csv data from the inverter and
>download usage data from the Owl and one day when
>I have time I will correlate them!!!
>I have tried twice on this list to encourage
>another solar user to come up with a more elegant
>monitoring system, or an automated switching
>system based on consumption and generation
>monitoring as I am on the limits of my skills in
>that area! My plea was ignored!!
>In the meantime the two monitors are in the
>kitchen with a triple X10 switch and the hot tub
>heater, the tumble drier and the washing machine
>are rigged that they can be switched on manually
>if generation exceeds consumption by a suitable
>amount. I opted for the assumption that I would
>export 50% of what I generate, so the game is to
>use as much as possible as it is "free".
>HTH
>Peter
>PS 6:30am already 645 watts. Baseload 770 watts
>(ha, Sonos, MHRV, etc). Looks like another profitable day ahead!
>
>At 16:14 14/07/2011, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Peter,
> >
> >After my installer has been talking to the SMA
> >support guys, it transpires that the RS485 card
> >only works with their webbox (=A3350!) and not
> >with their Sunny Explorer software. I'm not
> >convinced that's necessarily true but probably
> >safe to say it certainly wouldn't be the "plug
> >and play" solution I'd envisaged.
> >
> >Anyway, given this new piece of information I'm
> >back to having to make do with Bluetooth like
> >yourself. My server is probably only about 7M
> >away from where the inverter will be so I'm
> >pretty confident I would be abler to get away
> >with using a simple passive USB/Cat5 extender to
> >get the receiver into the same cellar as the
> >inverter (i.e. within line of sight).
> >
> >When you say that Sunny Explorer is "flakey"
> >what do you mean ? Does it crash or just loose
> >connection, if it crashes then that's probably
> >easier to automate a solution for.
> >
> >Marcus
> >
> >From:
> ><mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:ukha_d
> %40yahoogroups.com>ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com=
><mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
> >[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:u=
kha_d%40
> yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Peter + Jane
> >Sent: 13 July 2011 14:46
> >To:
> <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40y=
ahoogroups.com><mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Solar PV ?
> >
> >Marcus
> >
> >FYI I played with USB to cat 5 baluns + bluetooth
> >dongle. Worked, but dropped out occasionally. I
> >now use 2 x 10m plus 1 x 5m active USB cables
> >plus a dongle. Cost =A325 total. Stable and works
> >with Sunny Explorer software, which itself is a
> >bit flakey. CSV files downloadable so still ok!
> >
> >Yes I did get a deal on Sanyo. Shape of my
> >available roof was perfect for them, so no
> >brainer (as long as they last!) Not proven technology.
> >
> >Rgds
> >Peter
> >
> >At 11:36 13/07/2011, you wrote:
> >
> > >Intersting you mention the Bluetooth, as I was a
> > >little concerened about coverage because it
> > >would be below ground level rather than at a
> > >high point. I was planning on using a cheap BT
> > >dongle to gather statistics from the inverter on
> > >the house server, but maybe I'll invest in the
> > >optional RS485 card for the inverter and use a cable instead.
> > >
> > >
> > >I looked at Sanyo HIPS but again, for me, they
> > >cost more (added about an extra =A32K to the
> > >quote!) than they'd return. I think if you've
> > >limited roof space ,or you get them cheap, they make more
sense.
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
>

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