Re: Can the BBB be spoofed? (was something else >g>)

[Frank Olson <Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Robert Green wrote:

>  >> Why are you "sure?"

I believe everyone should have the benefit of the doubt (until it can be
categorically proven one way or the other).


>
>
>>>If I called the BBB would one of those 21 complaints be from you?
>
>
>>I've never purchase anything from Robert.
>
>
> You mean "purchased."  You're already sounding nervous.  Hmm.

Missed a "d".  So sue me.


>
>
>>I wouldn't qualify to file a complaint about his service, delivery,
>>or support.
>
>
> If you watch enough "Forensic Files" you learn that *guilty* people hardly
> ever just say "no" to an accusation.   Instead, they'll often put a lot of
> effort into explaining why it *couldn't* be them.

I don't watch that sort of stuff.  I'm more interested in things on the
History Channel...  or Discovery.


> But they never flat out
> deny the charge the way innocent people do.

I not only flat out deny the charge I also stated that I wouldn't
qualify to file a complaint.


> "I wouldn't qualify" is a long
> way from "I didn't do it."

Uh-huh.  So is "I wasn't in Dallas the day JFK was shot".


> You're also too specific.  You mention "service,
> delivery or support" as if those are the only possible categories.

I'm a BBB member.  What other complaint categories would anyone have
when dealing with an online vendor??


> You're
> hiding something.

Only the name of my company.


> Did you complain to them about his advertising?

What advertising?


> His qualifications?

What "qualifications" do you need to sell something online?


His business licenses?

What "business licenses"?



> I know how they work and I know that they can be scammed.  I also know you
> just side-stepped my question *again.*

My company's been a member of the BBB for almost 11 years.  I volunteer
for several committees and have mediated disputes between consumers and
both member and non-member businesses.  I can assure you that there are
several safeguards in place to prevent the very thing you're accusing me
of doing.  You either obviously *don't* know how the BBB operates, or
are trying to emulate one of Robert's favorite tactics (which you're
doing a piss-poor job at).


>
> Twenty-one complaints is *so* out of line that I believe someone's scammed
> them and they just haven't figured it out yet.

Which report are you reading??  Of the 21 complaints filed against
Robert's various online companies, several have been resolved.  Some
have not been.  How many people do you think take the trouble to
actually *file* a complaint with the BBB.  It usually happens when
they're out a lot of money, or have exhausted all other avenues to
resolve the difficulty.


> I'll bet they will . . .
> eventually.  Especially if someone questions them closely and sends along
> information like your comment that you're "sure" that some people have
> bought things from Bass to deliberately damage and return.  Thanks for being
> helpful for once!

I mention this particular issue because it's one I've come across a
couple of times as well.  It's why I tell anyone that purchases product
from me that's going the DIY route that there is *no* warranty
(manufacturer's or otherwise) unless of course they care to spend the
$65.00 (CDN) to have one of my guys inspect their connections *before*
they apply power to their creation.


>
> It's pretty obvious you know some details about the complaints.

I've been in this business for 24 years.  I've seen it all.


> That tells
> me this is just an extension of the long-running and well-organized smear
> campaign.

Uh-huh.  All this comment tells me is that you really don't know what
you're talking about.


> Filing questionable BBB claims and then crowing about the number
> is *exactly* what I would expect at this point.

I've never filed a BBB claim (complaint) of any sort.  And the only one
"crowing" here is Bass (who seems to think that 21 complaints is OK).



> Irrelevance?  You say you've never purchased from Robert but somehow you can
> tell him apart from his brother on his answering machine.

I tried calling him one day.  I figured we should talk.  I didn't leave
a message because I figured it would just get ignored (like my emails).
  This was back when he still had a toll-free line (which I didn't use).
  I figured it should be "my nickel".  I was actually quite surprised to
hear a voice other than Robert's and I thought Michael was his son.


> For what
> legitimate reason are you calling a business you allegedly have nothing to
> do with?  Who do you think you are fooling?  Tell us again how this is not a
> vendetta?

"Vendetta" implies he's injured me in some fashion.  He doesn't even
know who I am.


>
> I'm betting one of those 21 complaints has either your real name or one of
> your aliases on it.

Which "alias" are you referring to?


> Your weak denial that "you wouldn't qualify" to file
> one is as dubious as your weasel-worded promise not to cross-post.

I never said I wouldn't cross post.  I said I wouldn't add CHA to a post
I make in ASA.  In hitting "reply" and "send" I frequently don't pay
attention as to whether it's cross posted to alt.flames.bass-laffer or
where-ever.


> When you
> got caught, you tried to wriggle out on a technicality.  Just like you're
> trying to do now.

Nope.  From what I see you've learned a lot from good ol' Robert though.


>
> The question still stands:  Is any one of those 21 complaints against Robert
> Bass with the BBB something you're responsible for?

The definitive answer is *NO*.  Most emphatically *NO*.  I've never
contacted the Florida BBB (or any of the Bureaus registered in the US)
for any reason.  The only BBB branch I've had any dealings with is the
one in Vancouver.

While we're on the subject of setting the record straight, Robert also
frequently posts nonsense about my calling his suppliers to "say bad
things about him".  I freely admit to calling DSC and telling them about
the fact that he was making their panel software available to anyone for
download in violation of their EULA.  Within 30 minutes of my hanging up
the phone, it was no longer available.  I also freely admit to calling
ADI in Clearwater.  I never identified myself or mentioned Robert.  I
only asked one question.  "What do I need to open an account there?".
They responded with:  "A Florida license".  And that was the end of the
conversation.


>
> FWIW, I've been doing a little research into the BBB complaint process.
> Here's some interesting reading about the BBB from a web hosting company
> business owner:
>
> ************************************************
> I give no credibility to the BBB whatsoever, because:
> 1. It's simply too easy for a consumer to file a false claim.

Not true.


> 2. It's too easy for the consumer to provide false facts.

Blatantly not true.


> 3. The BBB takes the consumer's word as fact, until proven otherwise.

Not true.


> 4. The BBB determines randomly, what they feel is sufficiant proof, to
> debunk the consumer's claim.

Not true.


> 5. The BBB's policies allow consumers to take advantage of legit companies.

Not true.


>
> http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/web-hosting-business-legal-issues/6991-acce
> ptance-the-bbb.html
>
> Mark - Co-President/Lead Developer--avidInteractive Software

I've read the discussion.  It's not that easy to file a "false" claim.
The BBB actually investigates complaints against companies and from what
I've personally seen of the mediation process, the system works.  This
is simply a case of one individual that doesn't believe belonging to the
BBB is a "good thing".  It appears from reading this that the situation
was handled properly from start to finish and I doubt the dispute even
made it to the company report.  Mind you you're only seeing *one side*
of the issue.  It's the very reason why I stated what I did about the
complaints Robert might have received.


>
> *************************************************
>
> So, at least someone other than me has some questions about the meaning and
> quality of BBB stats.  It seems their number one complaint is how easy it is
> file false claims.

Heh...  That's as bad as saying Robert has a "high percentage" of
complaints...