Re: Z-Wave RF range

["Petem" <petem001@xxxxxxxxx>]

thanks for not letting mr bass think for yourself..

when he say that I am disingenuous,well he is right,but that's when I talk
to him...

I did had some different political idea then some in the ASA newsgroup,but
on the technical side,I do talk about alarms,and when I see a question and
that no one gave the same answer I would give,I post it as soon as I can,but
since I mostly read that ng either in the morning or very late at night most
question have been answered and I don't do post like " I too know the answer
and its that same as bla bla bla"

I am telling you that just so that when mr bass tell you I don't post much
technical stuff,you have the answer why..


"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit dans le message de
news: ucGgh.3138$yC5.352@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Robert L Bass wrote:
>
>>>No but I have other RF remotes here...
>>>Plus I do lots of EMC measurements for a living.
>>>
>>>I haven't tried Z-Wave yet because I
>>>have experienced lack of range on all of the RF gear we have. Pretty much
>>>what Pete mentioned in a post further
>>>below.
>>
>>
>> If you're referring to the fellow who calls himself Petem, he's
>> disingenuous, even more so than Houston.  If I said Z-Wave was awful he'd
>> claim it was the best thing since sliced bread.  There's a raft of these
>> charactewrs who wander in from the alarm newsgroup, posting garbage. He's
>> one of them.  You can pretty much dismiss anything he says.
>>
>
> To me it sounded like he had actually bought the stuff and tried it. It is
> always good to hear from people who have use a certain technology.
>
>
>> It sounds like you've got a home that for some unknown reasons is
>> problematic for RF.  That doesn't make Z-Wave good or bad.  It just means
>> your house is RF unfriendly.
>>
>
> Well, it may be RF unfriendly but my take is that technology marketed as
> home automation must be able to cope. Lots of houses out here like this
> one. Else there is going to be the usual rash of unhappy customers like
> you have it with X10. Or in the case of contractors the post-install
> complaints which makes them turn their backs on the technology if that
> festers.
>
>>
>>>You can end a phone conversation simply
>>>by walking into the garage with the wireless
>>>phone...
>>
>>
>> My home is what I consider "medium large" -- 3,800 sf under air and
>> almost 3,000 sf non-AC space.  I have two sets of wireless phones.  The
>> business phones are from Sony.  They work everywhere except out by the
>> mailbox (50 feet from the front of the garage). My wife's personal line
>> is another brand.  It works well in 3/4 of the house, poorly in the rest
>> and not at all outside.
>>
>
> Our house is about 3000sqft and the phones we use are always pretty
> professional. None of the cheap stuff. Right now AT&T, before that it was
> Cincinnatti Microwave.
>
>
>> I just ordered some Z-Wave components to test in my house.  I'll let you
>> know how well they perform.  FWIW, I spoke with Phil Kingery today (many
>> old timers here remember him as "Uncle Phil", an avid HA enthusiast).  He
>> works for ACT marketing the Z-Wave.  I asked what were the larges
>> residential Z-Wave apps he knew of.  He said they have a California
>> single family residence with 220 nodes in it.  There's another in
>> Indianapolis with 80-something nodes.  Both are exceptionally large
>> homes.  According to Phil, both systems work flawlessly.
>>
>>
>>>IMHO it doesn't make much sense to sink money into an RF based system...
>>
>>
>> If hard-wiring is an option, we agree.  Wired hardware is almost always
>> preferable.  But if the choice is RF or X10 (or any of its derivatives
>> like Insteon), I'll go for RF.  BTW, I don't just denegrate Insteon
>> because it has problems.  It's the company itself which I sdon't like.
>> They have a nasty habit of letting end users beta test their products
>> without telling them.
>>
>
> Sounds like a large software company... ;-)
>
>>
>>>If it were available at Lowes or HD and there'd be a no-questions-asked
>>>return policy, then maybe...
>>
>>
>> As you probably already know, I sell HA products.  After I test the stuff
>> for a while I'll offer it for sale in my online store.  If you decide
>> you'd like to test a few units let me know.  If they're problematic I'll
>> take them back.
>>
>
> Thanks for the offer but I'll wait a little. I am pretty sure the range
> won't work where I live.
>
>>
>>>Although it would still most likely be a
>>>waste of time ;-)
>>
>>
>> Perhaps.
>>
>
> RF stuff out here is even more tough to operate. We are right next to a
> runway plus the Fedex freighter fly directly overhead and radio in their
> approach. Even the TV falls off the cliff sometimes.
>
>>
>>>About 35 miles east of Sacramento, CA.
>>>Lots of houses here with foil-backed
>>>wool. It is still widely used, like on our
>>>roof six years ago. We have foil-backed
>>>fiber under a Decra metal roof...
>>
>>
>> Perhaps California is very different from Southern New England. In
>> Florida we have concrete block walls and slab floors.  Roofs are shingle,
>> tile (like mine) or (rarely) metal.  Exterior walls are insulated but not
>> very much.  Our walls are over a foot thick.  The outside is concrete
>> block with stucco.  Inside that is a 2" insulated space and then
>> sheetrock.
>>
>
> Very different here. Two by fours, siding on the outside, drywall inside
> and AL-backed fiber inside, that's pretty much it. Our house in Europe
> looked like a fortress in comparison.
>
>>
>>>Same in Europe.
>>
>>
>> I haven't been there yet but I have a second home in Brazil.  Don't even
>> ask about construction techniques down there. :^)
>>
>
> I had a test generator from there. Oh man... but it somehow worked.
>
>>
>>>When we insulated our attic we bought
>>>the "good stuff" which is foil backed. Yes,
>>>you could get cheap paper-backed but
>>>I've seen in other houses how that falls
>>>out of the rafters after a few years.
>>
>>
>> Ours is glass wool with a sheet of plastic.  Attics down here are shallow
>> since roofs are not built for snow load.  There's almost no usable space
>> up there, except in the middle 10' or so of each wing.
>>
>
> Plastic backing wouldn't last more than a couple years in our heat.
>
>>
>>>Then there is radiant heat. In our house
>>>some <censored> before us has cut off
>>>the pipes but it must have been marvelous:
>>>There is a 2" concrete mud bed over all
>>>the floors and lots of copper pipes in there.
>>
>>
>> I redid tyhe master bath in my CT home some years ago.  It had always
>> been cold and I hate walking on cold tile in bare feet so I installed
>> radiant floor heating.  You're right.  It is wonderful!  In Florida I
>> only need heat a few times a year but my wife (tropical girl that she is)
>> needs heat any time the outside air is below about 80ºF or so it seems.
>> :^)
>>
>
> Hmm, mine does, too, even though she is from Berlin/Germany where it's 0F
> or less much of the winter.
>
>>
>>>That is probably the reason why the
>>>reach of RF remotes from the downstairs room up is so poor.
>>
>>
>> It could very well be.
>>
>>
>>>Unnecessary cost? Sure. But there are
>>>still lots of homes going up around here
>>>that aren't the usual cookie-cutters.
>>>Where owners specify exactly what they
>>>want to have. One even built the whole
>>>thing himself, just him and his wife...
>>
>>
>> I have a lot of DIY clients who've built their own homes.  One couple
>> I'll never forget.  He's a builder.  She's a policewoman.  On her days
>> off, even though she was pregnant, she helped in the construction.  She
>> called with a question one day when she was eight months along.  I asked
>> what all the hammering noise was in the background.  "Oh, that's me.  I'm
>> working while I talk on the phone." I asked what she was doing.  "Laying
>> shingles."  I have a picture which she sent of her and her husband with
>> the newborn a month later.  She's a really small person but that doesn't
>> slow her down at all.
>>
>> These folks built a 5,000+ sf home.  She did the HA system herself -- an
>> ELK M1G with over 50 sensors plus six zones of HVAC control.
>>
>
> Wow. Reminds me of a software engineer. Her husband was a nervous wreck
> but she said "The baby in there will understand that this project must be
> finished before giving birth". When the last compile run was complete she
> told her husband that it's high time.
>
>>
>>>They've got the best wall insulation
>>>that money can buy.
>>
>>
>> Here we don't need insulation as much as physical strength to keep
>> hurricanes and alligators out.
>>
>
> Our here it's eartquakes and bears ;-)
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com