Re: What can I replace this latching relay system with?

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

<jmj1492@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

> Steve,
>
> I've skimmed over the posts on this subject and wondered if you have
> one or more lighting control centers?  These are generally a small
> metal can with a partition separating the low and high voltage
> sections.  In the GE installations I am familiar with all the lighting
> loads were home run back to the control panel.  The mechanical on/off
> relays (RR7 etc) mounted in the partition with the low voltage leads on
> one side and the high voltage connections on the other.

That would be great for what he wants since he could then do PLC system that
was wired like a Centralite system but was controllable through standard PLC
devices.  It really doesn't matter whether the X-10 switch (actually, a
self-contained PLC triggered relay) is at the load or at the panel as long
as the load is the only one on that branch.  I got the impression from
following some of the links, that there were several different incarnations
of this system.  It would be nice to know more about the specifics or see
photos of Steve's installation.  (Hint, hint, Steve!)

> If your installation is similar perhaps you can remove all the relays
> and install some multi-circuit dimmers like the PCS Scenemaster LM4 (UL
> approved) which control 4 circuits (total 2000 watts) and is relatively
> small in size (4x9").  Unfortunately I believe these are out of
> production - so eBay may be your only resource for them.  You might try
> contacting www.pcslighting.com and see if they know of any units
> available.

If there is a central load controller, he will still be in good shape
because it might be possible to install fairly traditional X-10 inline
modules without worrying too much about size.   Once again, I think he's got
to de-energize the system and spend some time tracing wires with a fox and
hound.  I can't imagine completing such a refitting without a wiring tracer.
Until we have a better idea of what's there and how it connects, we could be
giving less-than-useful advice.

> If this is possible, you can then use your low voltage switch wires
> (existing switches)  to signal inputs to an ADI Ocelot/Secu16I
> combination, or Homevision type controller that can interpret switch
> presses, double presses, hold, etc. and put x10 signals on your house
> wiring accordingly.

That was my thought as well.  The low voltage switches would stay at low
voltage but the Ocelot changes those signals into X-10 commands for dimming
and controlling the various loads.  I'm of the mind that the wiring could be
as simple as insulation piercing beanies attached to the existing wires and
"teaching" the Ocelot to interpret the output of a switch's state.  Leave
the system controls as they are and have dimming accomplished by X-10
controllers.

It may be only me, but on the one light I do dim often, I'd rather doing it
sitting at my desk than at the wall switch.  Who knows, his wife might even
tolerate a Stickaswitch stuck next to the original LV controls.  (-:
Especially if you cross three or four big items off of your "honeydew" list
before you suggest it!

If Steve moves or tampers with the original switches too much, he could run
afoul of other electrical codes.  I recall dad installing an oil burner
cutoff switch too low for an inspector's taste.  Dad wanted to be able to
switch the unit while looking inside, the inspector said it had to be at a
standard height.  Guess who won?

> Because the x10 signal only needs to reach the LM4
> which is just a few  feet away I would expect 100% reliability.  The
> Homevision software has built-in functions to trap multiple keypresses
> making implementation simple.  The Ocelot can be a little slow on
> reading the SECU16I inputs and is more tedious to program.

I'm not familiar with Homevision but agree about the Ocelot.  It would make
the most sense if you can indeed interface to the main GE controller easily.
I'd be tempted to use two Ocelots.  One to handle the "autonomous" functions
of low-level operability of the "translator" and the other to run timed
macros, interpreted events, etc.   If I had to characterize the most common
plea for help in ADI's CMAX forums, it always seems to go like this:  "I
added something to my program and now everything's gone haywire."

> If you can make this work, it will be a clean and professional
> installation that would likely not scare off the next homeowner and,
> IMHO,  not be in violation of any NEC or fire codes.