Re: Need help with PLC noise problems in a Manhattan (New York City) apartment

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

Unfortunately, there are no comprehensive ZigBee based systems.

Crestron has some ZigBee based devices but they are primarily a hardwired
system and, in the past, have only used RF as an input (i.e. RF gateways). I
suspect they intend the ZigBee devices to augment the hardwired system.

Control 4 has some ZigBee switches but they also appear to be limited.

If you haven't done so you should read the RF whitepaper I cited about a
month ago from Echelon. While they have a vested interest in making ZigBee
and Z-Wave seem questionable, the paper is excellent and the points made
have been made elsewhere by academics and others with no apparent vested
interest.

Also, while the underlying ZigBee RF protocol is an open standard, it is
likely that the higher level communications protocols will be proprietary
and xenophobic.

Z-Wave doesn't appear to be making much market penetration.

I don't have many contacts but were I the Insteon marketing manager at
SmartHome I'd have an engineer on his way to Manhattan before lunchtime.
Alan's apartment would be the ideal test bed for all of Insteon's features.
(It might also convince them they need multiple RF channels to avoid
interference.)

"Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:438abdb8.31781980@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Any RF system is likely to be problematic in a densely inhabited urban
>> environment.
>>
>> My mystery signal disappeared after being here 24/7 for about a week.
>
>It would be interesting to see how ZigBee fares in this near worst-case
>scenario.  I can't see it being any *more* problematic than X-10 will likely
>be.  I can't imagine something as robust as an RF mesh network working worse
>than primitive and slow X-10 in a dense urban multi-unit dwelling.   The
>repeater function of mesh networks *should* eliminate many of the problems
>that X-10 faces in problem environments.
>
>How would you rate ZigBee's RF system v. X-10's in terms of robustness?  By
>that I mean reliability of communication and rejection of interference.
>When you press J5 on, it actually GOES on and never changes state without
>direct command?
>
>The OP's apartment building more than likely was built many, many years
>before the average household electrical consumption tripled or even
>quadrupled.  IIRC, household energy use tripled from 1949 to 2000.  In old,
>large buildings, there have probably been numerous upgrades to building
>wiring.  I'll bet that some were done more professionally than others, even
>with NYC's rigorous code and inspection requirements.  As you pointed out,
>some buildings have gone from low per occupant electrical consumption
>"office" to high per occupant "upper class residential."
>
>I've found the further you get from "new" the harder X-10 seems to be to
>implement because of the oddball home-brew fixes we see here where someone
>pulled a neutral from the wrong circuit to power a switch.  Of course, YMMV.
>
>I guess I'd take my chances on a robust, low power RF protocol over an
>undocumented local power grid that's connected to God knows what.  It would,
>indeed, be interesting to see how both ZigBee AND Insteon do in such a
>situation.  Surely with all your contacts, Dave, you could get someone to
>treat the OP to a head to head test of protocols using loaner equipment?
>If ZigBee and mesh networks are all they are touted to be, they should
>trounce X-10 in the OP's environment.  What an ideal "test case."
>
>As for your mystery signal disappearing I am not sure whether that's
>comforting or alarming.  Where did it come from?  Where did it go?