Re: Flourescent kills X10

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

That should be "both Bruce and Jeff".

nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston) wrote:

>If you refer to the schematic of the appliance module, you'll see that when
>the relay contacts are made (i.e. On), any line filter capacitor in the lamp
>is connected directly between line and neutral. Similarly, if the power
>supply in the fluorescent is generating noise and has no line filter
>capacitor this noise source is connected between line and neutral.
>
>     http://www.edcheung.com/automa/am486.gif
>
>NOTE: The schematic has two mistakes. The -B in MCR100-B should be -8 and
>the device should be drawn as an SCR instead of as a triac.
>
>Both Bruce and Robin think it's a line filter capacitor but I'm not sure
>there's enough evidence to conclude that it's not noise. You really need a
>scope to be sure or you need to look inside the fluorescent to see if it has
>a line filter cap that is of a size to cause problems. But, whichever is the
>case, Jeff's suggestion will probably cure it by blocking noise from the
>device or blocking the 120kHz X-10 signal from reaching the line filter
>capacitor.
>
>The part I don't understand is why you are able to turn AM1 off but are not
>able to control LM1 while AM1 is On. Both noise or a capacitor would be
>connected in parallel with the appliance module's tuned input transformer.
>
>"kviator" <kviator@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Just to make sure that I have described the problem correctly, here's
>>what I have.
>>
>>Source --------<S1>-----------------<S2>----|| end of line
>>                |                    |
>>               <S1a>                <S2a>
>>               (AM1)                (LM1)
>>               (F1)                 (I1)
>>
>><S1>, <S2> = Grounded Outlets
>><S1a>, <S2a> = Spliced-in additional grounded outlets
>>
>>(AM1) = 3 pin appliance module set at A5
>>(LM1) = Lamp module set at A6
>>
>>(F1) = 13 watt fluorescent light fixture
>>(I1) = Incandescent light (just for testing)
>>
>><AM1> has been modified to disable Local Control because it would not
>>turn off and stay off (cut trace on IC pin 7).  After that mod it
>>blinked (F1) when in off state, so I modified it for current sense
>>(sniped diode) and solved that problem.
>>
>>I can control the (AM1)(F1) branch ok.  If I have (AM1) in the OFF
>>position, I can control the (LM1) circuit just fine.  When the (AM1)
>>circuit is in the ON position, (LM1) never gets any X10 commands
>>because they are blocked by (F1).
>>
>>I did write a ON macro that turned-on (LM1) first then (AM1) and an OFF
>>macro that turned off (AM1) then (LM1) in that sequence and it worked.
>>
>>I plan to replace the (LM1) module with another appliance module to run
>>2 more of the same exact kinds of lights after I get all of this sorted
>>out.  I was just using the lamp module for test.
>>
>>I'm wondering what might happen when I add another appliance module in
>>the (S2a) circuit and connect the fluorescent lights to it.  Will I
>>then loose control of the (S1a) circuit and be back to square 1?
>>
>>Since all of these fluorescent lights will be used together, the macro
>>solution is ok assuming that it continues to work when I add the second
>>appliance module.  A more permanent fix would be better though.
>>
>>I just went out at lunch and bought another appliance module, so I'll
>>be testing tonight.
>>
>>Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>Dave Houston wrote:
>>> I took your admonitions about sizing the choke to handle the current to mean
>>> you wanted to avoid a torrid choke.
>>>
>>> I guess I've never looked inside an appliance module. I expected more room.
>>>
>>> "Jeff Volp" <JeffVolp@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Gotta love those automatic spell checkers!
>>> >
>>> >One would change our secretary's name from Denise to Dense.  (She wasn't.)
>>> >
>>> >Jeff
>>> >
>>> >> about 1/2 inch diameter by 1 1/2 inches long.  There may be smaller torrid
>>> >> chokes available.
>>> >