Re: Flourescent kills X10

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

If you refer to the schematic of the appliance module, you'll see that when
the relay contacts are made (i.e. On), any line filter capacitor in the lamp
is connected directly between line and neutral. Similarly, if the power
supply in the fluorescent is generating noise and has no line filter
capacitor this noise source is connected between line and neutral.

     http://www.edcheung.com/automa/am486.gif

NOTE: The schematic has two mistakes. The -B in MCR100-B should be -8 and
the device should be drawn as an SCR instead of as a triac.

Both Bruce and Robin think it's a line filter capacitor but I'm not sure
there's enough evidence to conclude that it's not noise. You really need a
scope to be sure or you need to look inside the fluorescent to see if it has
a line filter cap that is of a size to cause problems. But, whichever is the
case, Jeff's suggestion will probably cure it by blocking noise from the
device or blocking the 120kHz X-10 signal from reaching the line filter
capacitor.

The part I don't understand is why you are able to turn AM1 off but are not
able to control LM1 while AM1 is On. Both noise or a capacitor would be
connected in parallel with the appliance module's tuned input transformer.

"kviator" <kviator@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Just to make sure that I have described the problem correctly, here's
>what I have.
>
>Source --------<S1>-----------------<S2>----|| end of line
>                |                    |
>               <S1a>                <S2a>
>               (AM1)                (LM1)
>               (F1)                 (I1)
>
><S1>, <S2> = Grounded Outlets
><S1a>, <S2a> = Spliced-in additional grounded outlets
>
>(AM1) = 3 pin appliance module set at A5
>(LM1) = Lamp module set at A6
>
>(F1) = 13 watt fluorescent light fixture
>(I1) = Incandescent light (just for testing)
>
><AM1> has been modified to disable Local Control because it would not
>turn off and stay off (cut trace on IC pin 7).  After that mod it
>blinked (F1) when in off state, so I modified it for current sense
>(sniped diode) and solved that problem.
>
>I can control the (AM1)(F1) branch ok.  If I have (AM1) in the OFF
>position, I can control the (LM1) circuit just fine.  When the (AM1)
>circuit is in the ON position, (LM1) never gets any X10 commands
>because they are blocked by (F1).
>
>I did write a ON macro that turned-on (LM1) first then (AM1) and an OFF
>macro that turned off (AM1) then (LM1) in that sequence and it worked.
>
>I plan to replace the (LM1) module with another appliance module to run
>2 more of the same exact kinds of lights after I get all of this sorted
>out.  I was just using the lamp module for test.
>
>I'm wondering what might happen when I add another appliance module in
>the (S2a) circuit and connect the fluorescent lights to it.  Will I
>then loose control of the (S1a) circuit and be back to square 1?
>
>Since all of these fluorescent lights will be used together, the macro
>solution is ok assuming that it continues to work when I add the second
>appliance module.  A more permanent fix would be better though.
>
>I just went out at lunch and bought another appliance module, so I'll
>be testing tonight.
>
>Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.
>
>Keith
>
>
>Dave Houston wrote:
>> I took your admonitions about sizing the choke to handle the current to mean
>> you wanted to avoid a torrid choke.
>>
>> I guess I've never looked inside an appliance module. I expected more room.
>>
>> "Jeff Volp" <JeffVolp@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >Gotta love those automatic spell checkers!
>> >
>> >One would change our secretary's name from Denise to Dense.  (She wasn't.)
>> >
>> >Jeff
>> >
>> >> about 1/2 inch diameter by 1 1/2 inches long.  There may be smaller torrid
>> >> chokes available.
>> >