Re: Flourescent kills X10

["BruceR" <br@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

It seems that if AM1 is on the noise is generated by the ballast
blocking signal to LM1. A filter plugged into AM1 might do the job.

From:Dave Houston
nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx

> That should be "both Bruce and Jeff".
>
> nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston) wrote:
>
>> If you refer to the schematic of the appliance module, you'll see
>> that when the relay contacts are made (i.e. On), any line filter
>> capacitor in the lamp is connected directly between line and
>> neutral. Similarly, if the power supply in the fluorescent is
>> generating noise and has no line filter capacitor this noise source
>> is connected between line and neutral.
>>
>>     http://www.edcheung.com/automa/am486.gif
>>
>> NOTE: The schematic has two mistakes. The -B in MCR100-B should be
>> -8 and the device should be drawn as an SCR instead of as a triac.
>>
>> Both Bruce and Robin think it's a line filter capacitor but I'm not
>> sure there's enough evidence to conclude that it's not noise. You
>> really need a scope to be sure or you need to look inside the
>> fluorescent to see if it has a line filter cap that is of a size to
>> cause problems. But, whichever is the case, Jeff's suggestion will
>> probably cure it by blocking noise from the device or blocking the
>> 120kHz X-10 signal from reaching the line filter capacitor.
>>
>> The part I don't understand is why you are able to turn AM1 off but
>> are not able to control LM1 while AM1 is On. Both noise or a
>> capacitor would be connected in parallel with the appliance module's
>> tuned input transformer.
>>
>> "kviator" <kviator@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Just to make sure that I have described the problem correctly,
>>> here's what I have.
>>>
>>> Source --------<S1>-----------------<S2>----|| end of line
>>>                |                    |
>>>               <S1a>                <S2a>
>>>               (AM1)                (LM1)
>>>               (F1)                 (I1)
>>>
>>> <S1>, <S2> = Grounded Outlets
>>> <S1a>, <S2a> = Spliced-in additional grounded outlets
>>>
>>> (AM1) = 3 pin appliance module set at A5
>>> (LM1) = Lamp module set at A6
>>>
>>> (F1) = 13 watt fluorescent light fixture
>>> (I1) = Incandescent light (just for testing)
>>>
>>> <AM1> has been modified to disable Local Control because it would
>>> not turn off and stay off (cut trace on IC pin 7).  After that mod
>>> it blinked (F1) when in off state, so I modified it for current
>>> sense (sniped diode) and solved that problem.
>>>
>>> I can control the (AM1)(F1) branch ok.  If I have (AM1) in the OFF
>>> position, I can control the (LM1) circuit just fine.  When the (AM1)
>>> circuit is in the ON position, (LM1) never gets any X10 commands
>>> because they are blocked by (F1).
>>>
>>> I did write a ON macro that turned-on (LM1) first then (AM1) and an
>>> OFF macro that turned off (AM1) then (LM1) in that sequence and it
>>> worked.
>>>
>>> I plan to replace the (LM1) module with another appliance module to
>>> run 2 more of the same exact kinds of lights after I get all of
>>> this sorted out.  I was just using the lamp module for test.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering what might happen when I add another appliance module
>>> in the (S2a) circuit and connect the fluorescent lights to it.
>>> Will I then loose control of the (S1a) circuit and be back to
>>> square 1?
>>>
>>> Since all of these fluorescent lights will be used together, the
>>> macro solution is ok assuming that it continues to work when I add
>>> the second appliance module.  A more permanent fix would be better
>>> though.
>>>
>>> I just went out at lunch and bought another appliance module, so
>>> I'll be testing tonight.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Houston wrote:
>>>> I took your admonitions about sizing the choke to handle the
>>>> current to mean you wanted to avoid a torrid choke.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I've never looked inside an appliance module. I expected
>>>> more room.
>>>>
>>>> "Jeff Volp" <JeffVolp@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gotta love those automatic spell checkers!
>>>>>
>>>>> One would change our secretary's name from Denise to Dense.  (She
>>>>> wasn't.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>> about 1/2 inch diameter by 1 1/2 inches long.  There may be
>>>>>> smaller torrid chokes available.