Re: Need to cut through the BS on Alarm monitoring costs

[tourman <robercampbell@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Feb 6, 6:58=A0am, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 7:01=A0pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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> > On Feb 5, 9:30=A0am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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> > > On Feb 4, 10:05=A0pm, blueman <NOS...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > ...snip...
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> > > > Well, the 'uneducated' installers at my alarm company are taught to
> > > > twist and solder. Unfortunately, the ones that did my installation =
were
> > > > lazy and "forgot" to even solder about half the connections -- they=
 were
> > > > just twisted. So by going back and soldering the joints, all I did =
was
> > > > bring the installation up to the level that the installers are supp=
osed
> > > > to do according to their training.
>
> > > > Unless you are in some type of hostile environment (outdoors, near =
the
> > > > sea, chemical exposure), a good mechanical + solder connection shou=
ld
> > > > last pretty much indefinitely. How do you think components are conn=
ected
> > > > inside the panel? I have made solder joints 40+ years ago that are =
still
> > > > good. If your joints are twisted, soldered, and taped in a 'normal'
> > > > environment and still failing I call either "bullshit" or that you =
are
> > > > not as good at soldering as you think. Perhaps you have some cold s=
older
> > > > joints? In 40 years of doing electronics, I have never seen a prope=
rly
> > > > done solder joint fail by itself (of course enough mechanical twist=
ing
> > > > will break the joint but the wire itself would typical break even
> > > > ealier). Also, in my experience, CRIMP connections are at least as
> > > > likely to fail since a lot of people don't do a good job crimping -
> > > > either too much or too little crimping force or they don't insert t=
he
> > > > wires properly. Also, a solder joint is both a mechanical and a
> > > > chemical/welded connection, so it is theoretically electrically sup=
erior
> > > > to a crimp connection.
>
> > > ...snip...
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> > > I was further told to NOT solder a crimped connection, because it
> > > undoes the 'goodness' of the connection. =A0Seems the heat eases the
> > > spring forces undoing the advantages of a spring loaded connection.
> > > Telephone companies, do NOT solder ther land wires for same reason.
> > > always spring forces and crimps. =A0I always thought that was done
> > > because the lack of AC power in the field to make a good solder
> > > connection forced them to rely on these crimp connection, a 'lesser'
> > > quality connection [in my mind only].
>
> > > Yes, I'm aware of solder inside electronic systems. I used to design
> > > autopilots [somewhat of a major reliability requirement] and telecom
> > > systems that MUST have 50,000 hours MTBF! =A0Armed with those
> > > experiences *and* a university degree I didn't listen to EXPERIENCED
> > > installers. I KNEW better. W R O N G ! =A0Again, my PERFECT soldered
> > > connections false alarmed in 1 year external and 10 years internal.
> > > Going around re-soldering, they all held again for about the same
> > > amount of time.
>
> > > For a connection to fail in a security system it only needs to open
> > > for microseconds, then reconnect for another month. =A0Most people
> > > wouldn't even notice that happening inside their CD player, TV, etc.
> > > And, THAT'S exactly what those solder connections did. False alarm,
> > > hold several months, false alarm, hold month, false alarm, until got
> > > down to every week, then re-solder to fix...and last for another 10
> > > years.
>
> > RHC: Soldering connections in any professional alarm installation is
> > something I, nor anyone else I know in the business, does as a matter
> > of course. I have installed 1000's of alarms using the industry
> > standard "B" connectors and in a decade and a half, I have never had
> > ANY problems with this kind of connection on an alarm system. The
> > biggest danger is nicking the wire when stripping the insulation off;
> > this will cause problems that may not show up for awhile. I have a
> > lucky pair of cutters, that are just now dull enough to ensure I don't
> > ever do that. I have told my son, if and when I lose this favourite
> > pair of strippers, I will retire on the spot...:))
>
> > A far bigger problem is amateur installers who twist the wire
> > together, then put a piece of the insulation back over the connection.
> > With crimp style B connectors costing about $18 for a thousand, what
> > kind of untrained, cheapsh*t idiot does that. To answer my own
> > question, far too many....
>
> I like to use the blue ones with silicon in them great for damp wet
> areas around doors etc.

RHC: Yup, great for environmentally exposed connections of all kinds