Re: Need to cut through the BS on Alarm monitoring costs

[nick markowitz <nmarkowitz@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Feb 5, 7:01=A0pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 9:30=A0am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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> > On Feb 4, 10:05=A0pm, blueman <NOS...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > ...snip...
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> > > Well, the 'uneducated' installers at my alarm company are taught to
> > > twist and solder. Unfortunately, the ones that did my installation we=
re
> > > lazy and "forgot" to even solder about half the connections -- they w=
ere
> > > just twisted. So by going back and soldering the joints, all I did wa=
s
> > > bring the installation up to the level that the installers are suppos=
ed
> > > to do according to their training.
>
> > > Unless you are in some type of hostile environment (outdoors, near th=
e
> > > sea, chemical exposure), a good mechanical + solder connection should
> > > last pretty much indefinitely. How do you think components are connec=
ted
> > > inside the panel? I have made solder joints 40+ years ago that are st=
ill
> > > good. If your joints are twisted, soldered, and taped in a 'normal'
> > > environment and still failing I call either "bullshit" or that you ar=
e
> > > not as good at soldering as you think. Perhaps you have some cold sol=
der
> > > joints? In 40 years of doing electronics, I have never seen a properl=
y
> > > done solder joint fail by itself (of course enough mechanical twistin=
g
> > > will break the joint but the wire itself would typical break even
> > > ealier). Also, in my experience, CRIMP connections are at least as
> > > likely to fail since a lot of people don't do a good job crimping -
> > > either too much or too little crimping force or they don't insert the
> > > wires properly. Also, a solder joint is both a mechanical and a
> > > chemical/welded connection, so it is theoretically electrically super=
ior
> > > to a crimp connection.
>
> > ...snip...
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> > I was further told to NOT solder a crimped connection, because it
> > undoes the 'goodness' of the connection. =A0Seems the heat eases the
> > spring forces undoing the advantages of a spring loaded connection.
> > Telephone companies, do NOT solder ther land wires for same reason.
> > always spring forces and crimps. =A0I always thought that was done
> > because the lack of AC power in the field to make a good solder
> > connection forced them to rely on these crimp connection, a 'lesser'
> > quality connection [in my mind only].
>
> > Yes, I'm aware of solder inside electronic systems. I used to design
> > autopilots [somewhat of a major reliability requirement] and telecom
> > systems that MUST have 50,000 hours MTBF! =A0Armed with those
> > experiences *and* a university degree I didn't listen to EXPERIENCED
> > installers. I KNEW better. W R O N G ! =A0Again, my PERFECT soldered
> > connections false alarmed in 1 year external and 10 years internal.
> > Going around re-soldering, they all held again for about the same
> > amount of time.
>
> > For a connection to fail in a security system it only needs to open
> > for microseconds, then reconnect for another month. =A0Most people
> > wouldn't even notice that happening inside their CD player, TV, etc.
> > And, THAT'S exactly what those solder connections did. False alarm,
> > hold several months, false alarm, hold month, false alarm, until got
> > down to every week, then re-solder to fix...and last for another 10
> > years.
>
> RHC: Soldering connections in any professional alarm installation is
> something I, nor anyone else I know in the business, does as a matter
> of course. I have installed 1000's of alarms using the industry
> standard "B" connectors and in a decade and a half, I have never had
> ANY problems with this kind of connection on an alarm system. The
> biggest danger is nicking the wire when stripping the insulation off;
> this will cause problems that may not show up for awhile. I have a
> lucky pair of cutters, that are just now dull enough to ensure I don't
> ever do that. I have told my son, if and when I lose this favourite
> pair of strippers, I will retire on the spot...:))
>
> A far bigger problem is amateur installers who twist the wire
> together, then put a piece of the insulation back over the connection.
> With crimp style B connectors costing about $18 for a thousand, what
> kind of untrained, cheapsh*t idiot does that. To answer my own
> question, far too many....

I like to use the blue ones with silicon in them great for damp wet
areas around doors etc.