Re: Need to cut through the BS on Alarm monitoring costs

[blueman <NOSPAM@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Robert Macy <robert.a.macy@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

> On Feb 2, 5:21Â am, blueman <NOS...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> "doug" <vssd...@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>> > "blueman" <NOS...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >news:m2y5sm18v7.fsf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>I am looking for honest, unbiased, unemotional answers to this
>> >> question. (I know it's Usenet, but one can always hope...)
>>
>> >> I currently have a fire & burglary monitoring policy with the local
>> >> dominant alarm company. I own the equipment and I am responsible for
>> >> service charges to fix the equipment.
>>
>> >> They charge me $36/month for straight Internet monitoring.
>>
>> >> National online monitoring companies offer seemingly the same service
>> >> for $8.95/month. Or 1/4 the cost.
>>
>> >> My high-priced local company claims:
>> >> - They are big (20,000 customers) - but the national competitor claims
>> >> Â 40,000 customers
>>
>> >> - Their service center is "local" -- but it's really halfway across the
>> >> Â state so does that really mean anything in the day of the Internet
>>
>> >> - They are a "security company" vs. competitors being "monitoring"
>> >> Â companies. Though not sure what that means or why I care
>>
>> >> - They have a 5-star UL-listed center - but the national competitor
>> >> Â claims to be UL-listed and it's not clear what 5-stars means and who
>> >> Â even grants such certification. Sounds like marketing hype.
>>
>> >> - They have 30-second average response time -- but competitor claims the
>> >> Â same
>>
>> >> - They say they have a better BBB track record than big national
>> >> Â competitors - but the competitor claims an A+ BBB rating which can't
>> >> Â be too bad
>>
>> >> The bottom line is that I can't see one compelling reason to pay 4 times
>> >> the competitor rate for what seems to be a commodity service.
>>
>> >> - I live in a very safe, low crime neighborhood.
>>
>> >> - I primarily pay for the monitoring to get the insurance break.
>>
>> >> - I don't stay up nights worrying about fires or burglaries and in any
>> >> Â case I still have the in-house alarm to warn me of a fire and scare
>> >> Â off amateur burgalers.
>>
>> >> - I am technically adept and have no problem servicing and programming
>> >> Â my system
>>
>> >> Seems like worst case perhaps the response time will be a few seconds
>> >> longer in some rare cases or maybe there is a small chance they will
>> >> make a mistake -- but the point is that there are so many other failure
>> >> points in a security system and we are talking about rare events (fire,
>> >> burglary) anyway.
>>
>> >> So, why pay 4 times as much????
>>
>> > The bottom line is that alarm monitoring service is pretty much a commodity
>> > nowadays. The reality is there is little difference in the monitoring
>> > service if you pay $10 or $30 per month, the issues may come if you need
>> > maintenance or repair service.
>>
>> > We no longer provide service to fire or burglar alarm systems that we don't
>> > monitor and most service companies won't provide repair service to any
>> > system they don't monitor, or if they do then they charge a premium price
>> > for the service and don't attach any priority to it.
>>
>> > So, if you can handle the repair/service in-house, or are prepared to pay a
>> > premium for repair service and save a couple of hundred per year on
>> > monitoring, then take the lower cost monitoring, but be prepared to pay
>> > substantially more for repair service if and when it is required.
>> > We charge $35 a month for fire alarm monitoring and make no excuses for not
>> > being the lowest price, do you get better monitoring service with us than a
>> > $10 per month company, probably not. What you get is a prompt, reliable
>> > response when you need service or repair, something you are unlikely to get
>> > with the lower priced monitoring service
>>
>> All of what you say makes sense and you certainly have the right to
>> charge whatever the market bears in our capitalist sytem. I would do the
>> same if I were in your situation.
>>
>> For me the alarm system is pretty simple to diagnose/repair. Heck the
>> XR200 panel still uses a Z80 CPU and I was designing and
>> building computers with that processer 30 years ago.
>>
>> In any case, the current company doesn't really fix much themselves
>> anyway - they just swap parts. These parts are readily available online
>> for a fraction of the cost they charge anyway. I don't even mind going
>> for a few days without service. My house is over 200 years old and
>> survived fine for its first 200 years without any alarms or monitoring.
>>
>> By the way, the current company which installed the system did a pretty
>> crappy job in some areas with a number of the connections just twisted
>> together rather than soldered or connected with a solderless
>> connector. After a few years, I started getting faults which I tracked
>> down to these bad junctions. A little blob of solder fixed it all.
>>
>> Bottom line though is that if you know simple electronics and computer
>> programmming, alarms are actually quite simple...
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, does your $35/month include service or is that an
>> extra charge?
>
> from experience, CRIMP those connections, else 1 - 10 years you'll see
> false alarms again.  I soldered some of my connections with the most
> beautiful, perfect twist and solder wicking ever done, protected
> inside home, yet 10 years they started failing!
>
> You see, I did NOT listen to the 'uneducated' installers who had told
> me 'crimp is better than solder', after all, I was skilled design
> engineer educated at university and I knew better, NOT!  Lesson:
> Experience is the best education to learn about reliability. Go back
> and make those connections gas sealed pressure type connections and
> they will last longer than you.

Well, the 'uneducated' installers at my alarm company are taught to
twist and solder. Unfortunately, the ones that did my installation were
lazy and "forgot" to even solder about half the connections -- they were
just twisted. So by going back and soldering the joints, all I did was
bring the installation up to the level that the installers are supposed
to do according to their training.

Unless you are in some type of hostile environment (outdoors, near the
sea, chemical exposure), a good mechanical + solder connection should
last pretty much indefinitely. How do you think components are connected
inside the panel? I have made solder joints 40+ years ago that are still
good. If your joints are twisted, soldered, and taped in a 'normal'
environment and still failing I call either "bullshit" or that you are
not as good at soldering as you think. Perhaps you have some cold solder
joints? In 40 years of doing electronics, I have never seen a properly
done solder joint fail by itself (of course enough mechanical twisting
will break the joint but the wire itself would typical break even
ealier). Also, in my experience, CRIMP connections are at least as
likely to fail since a lot of people don't do a good job crimping -
either too much or too little crimping force or they don't insert the
wires properly. Also, a solder joint is both a mechanical and a
chemical/welded connection, so it is theoretically electrically superior
to a crimp connection.

> Regarding your 200 year old house, concentrate on the fire alarm/
> monitoring. From experience living in 100year old home, that wood
> dries out to the point of burning as fast as gun powder. seriously
> fast fire potential, plus they didn't seem to put fire blocks in the
> walls like today.

That is why I have an alarm. My only claim is that the combined chance
of fire plus nobody being in or near the house to hear the alarm plus
the 'national' company taking 20 minutes to respond is pretty low. All
of those events (except maybe the second) are very low probability. The
chance of all 3 failing at the same time for any given individual
consumer (e.g., me) is extremely low (the product
of 3 low probabilities). Of course across the entire country there
may be a couple of anecdotes per year of such combined failure.

> Just a note on service, I measure the service by whether I can REACH a
> person, with a name and authority. If I can't reach a person, they're
> blacklisted as a vendor.

Agreed!