Re: Paypal has been hacked

["Robert L Bass" <robert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"JoeRaisin" wrote:
>
> Robert L Bass wrote:
>> "mleuck" wrote:
>>>
>>>> I hope it was not (tongue in cheek). I'm not a liberal or
>>>> conservative, Democrat nor Republican, but everything
>>>> in the about quote I completely agree with.
>>>
>>> I find it interesting that many of the largest and supposedly
>>> greedy corporations such as Google, Microsoft, Berkshire
>>> Hathaway are headed by lefties. And as we've seen so far
>>> the "regulation" always ends up being a government
>>> takeover
>>
>> Interesting that you choose as examples companies that have nothing to do
>> with any of the major issues confronting the nation.  Is there some reason
>> you don't mention United Healthcare, Blue Cross, etc?
>
> Are they headed by lefties?  'cause that was his point, as I read it.

They probably are.  I really don't know since I don't follow them.  I was
talking about companies that affect our healthcare and stuff like that.

>> That argument is based on a fallacy.  No one is trying to change the
>> healthcare system into a "massive government program."  We are trying to
>> regulate an industry that is wrecking the lives of American citizens while
>> destroying the economy.  We are offering *an option*, for those who may
>> choose if of their own volition, to compete with what the ravenous insurance
>> companies offer.  We are trying to make insurance available and affordable to
>> people with pre-existing conditions and to those who get laid off or whose
>> employers are unable to help them.
>>
>
> Which is why I believe the answer should have been to expand medicare to such
> folks - on a temporary or permanent basis as needed.

That was one of the options that was discussed early on.  It makes sense, too.
Of cpourse, that's probably reason enough to scrap it.  :^)

> I also think that individuals should be able to deduct health insurance costs
> just as employers can.

Agreed.

> As far as I know, the tax incentive for an employer dropping a health benefit
> is still there.  The payment to the Gov. for dropping benefit has to be the
> same cast as having the benefit - that is how it is kept neutral.
>
> Mandatory participation is a payoff to the insurance companies.

That's a problem issue.  Without it, the total insured pool is skewed toward
those who are most likely to need care.  With it, there's a windfall.  The only
ways to avoid that are (1) a public option or (2) expanded medicare.  Then
again, Medicare *is* a public option.  My mother was taking to ne of her friends
many years ago about Medicare.  The retired lady was on Medicare.  She kept
going on about how terrible it was that the goverment had taken over medical
care.  Me mom asked her if she was going to drop her medicare coverage.
"Absolutely not!"
[Note to Mark: the word, "option," has nothing in common with the word
"takeover"]

> As for medical costs - hospitals and doctors should not be allowed to charge
> twice as much (or more) for a given procedure or visit because a person does
> not have insurance.  I consider that to be partially a tax dodge used by the
> medical community - one that should be addressed.

One that should be prosecuted.

> My son recently went to an urgent care - spent about one hour waiting and five
> minutes with the doctor.  He didn't think we had insurance at the time (as I
> had just lost my job).  The bill was for just over two hundred bucks.
>
> Turns out we do have insurance (tri-care standard) as I'm retired military.
> The bill was resubmitted and lo-and-behold, the bill dropped one hundred
> dollars.  That was applied to my deductible so I had to pay it anyway, but
> because the hospital offers a "discount" to insurance carriers the bill was
> cut in half.

Although some of this is just a rip-off, there are some arrangements where this
is actually done for the patient's benefit.

Moffitt hospital, where I did my chemo, has an interesting policy.  If you have
insurance they charge the flat rate which what the insurer agrees to pay.  That
way there's no co-pay.  The billable cost of my treatment over the past four
years was close to $2 million. Since my co-pay alone would have been in the
hundreds of thousands, I simply would not have been able to pay it, insurance or
not.

I wondered what happens to those who have no insurance.  One rainy afternoon as
we were waiting for the valet to bring the car down, I overheard an elderly,
obviously poor, black lady taking on her cell phone.  Her ride was stuck in a
major traffic jam and she was going to have to wait about an hour.  We offered
her a lift.  On the way home, we talked about chemo and how expensive it is.
She told me that Moffitt doesn't charge her because she has no insurance.  Once
in a while you find out somethinggood *is* being done for people in need.

Bear in mind, Moffitt is a not-for-profit, research hospital.  It's where you go
when regular medicine offers no hope.

> Those of you who run your own business know what happens
< to "discounts" come tax time...

Yep.

> Point is, there are no innocents in this game except for the consumers/tax
> payers.  Even then - if folks would treat doctors like they do any other
> service they purchase prices would be market driven. But the consumers need a
> reason or to do that - I like health savings accounts WITH catastrophic
> coverage for that purpose.

With catastrophic coverage, yes.  Unfortunately, they were only
proposed without it.  And that is nothing but you loaning your money to
the insurance companies or the government at zero percent interest.

> Insurance companies I won't bother to demonize - plenty of folks around here
> willing to do that - but suffice it to say I love caricature of the insurance
> exec portrayed by "Gilbert Huph" in the "Incredibles".

I missed that one.

> Politicians are just about power - period.  Federal politicians are just about
> consolidating power in DC - despite what the constitution has to say about it.
> The Obamastassi are just as bad as the Bushwaffen were.

I disagree.  Obama has a heart and a brain.

> The hospitals and to a lesser degree the doctors are out to get as much as
> they can (not that I blame them, really, profit is profit but don't ask me to
> feel sorry for them) while paying out the ass for protection from lawyers who,
> while there may be honorable ones trying to look out for people, are mostly
> just weasels trying to dip into the pockets of a business that rakes in the
> dough.  You know what they say about lawyers - the only good lawyer, is my
> lawyer...
>
> And don't tell me the hospitals, for the most part (there may be some
> shoe-string operations around, but not many), aren't raking it in.  I see the
> hospital here whining about money all time, but when I walk through the huge
> front foyer (it's basically a life-sized terrarium - wasted space) and see all
> the opulent building materials they use, I just can't feel sorry for them.
>
> At the nursing facility my wife works at, they have laid off two-thirds of the
> RN's citing the "economy" while they don't have a single empty bed, still have
> a long waiting list and haven't dropped their rates one bit.  I'm sure the
> hospital CEO got a nice fat bonus for cutting expenses...
>
>>> especially since Social Security, Welfare, Medicare and the
>>> Post Office are essentially bankrupt.
>>
>> Really?  Yet if you ask anyone who uses the Post Office if they would prefer
>> we shut it down and switch to FedEx or UPS, they'll ask if you're nuts as
>> they walk in and plunk their package down on the counter.
>>
>> Welfare is indeed in need of fixing.  We probably agree on more about the
>> problems of the welfare system than not.
>>
>
> I've lived in countries where welfare recipients have to DO something in order
> to stay eligible but, if we did it here, what happens to those who won't
> comply (and you know there will be)?  This country won't let them rot.  I've
> also lived in countries where there is no welfare - you don't NOT see that
> sort of poverty in this country - and you wouldn't.

Me, too.  You should see Brazil.

>> Medicare?  Ask anyone receiving it if they would like it stopped. The answer
>> is universal -- no way.  There are holes in it that need plugging and there
>> is a lot of fraud.  So fix it.  Go after crooked doctors and anyone else who
>> abuses it.  Use the money saved to help pay for the things we need to do.
>>
>>> You and Bass are fools
>>
>> That was not necessary. We disagree but both of us are being polite to you.
>
> There is no reason to get nasty on a news group other than show how bug your
> balls are when you're not face to face.
>
> Well, okay - I'm on another forum where I've gotten a bit testy with a
> particular participant once or twice - but not often...

See ya.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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