Re: Takeover standards

[tourman <robercampbell@xxxxxxxxx>]

Well, when push comes to shove, I don't really rely on something quite
so concrete as all that. Most of it is gut feel, but....based on some
of these concrete problems I run up against. I've been in this
business far too long to ever go by such hard and fast rules. I posted
that ditty for a couple of reasons...one, to get some of the more
inexperienced installers on the ng into thinking, so maybe they might
see some how some of their own poor practices in that post can cause
grief for clients and other companies. If I had just come out and said
what I really thought..."listen you stupid lazy bastards, learn to
install properly or get the f*** out of our business"....I think that
would have lead to a million negative responses that took the thread
to hell and back. Quoting some of those installation problems can be
useful when I have to explain to a client why I don't want his
monitoring business, and it gives me a way out, when in actual fact, I
don't want his business because I can tell he's a cheapskate who is
likely to give me trouble over every little cost to repair things. But
I can't quite come out and say that can I !!!

Secondly, I wanted to see some technical discussion on the ng like it
used to be in years past, where people could give and take ideas for
the benefit of readers....don't see much of that anymore...:((

Dunno if it achieved anything, but what the hell....back to sleep

RHC


On Aug 17, 2:57 pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 12:24?pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would like to hear comments from other regular installation
> > companies on what standards they personally use before "taking over"
> > alarm systems installed by other companies or individuals. Since I
> > have been doing far more takeovers lately, AND I am also now "cherry
> > picking" my clients, I have worked out a rough guide I use called the
> > "three strikes, you're out" rule ! It gives me something to use other
> > than my gut instincts. If you can add to it, I would like to hear your
> > comments. If you disagree with specific points, please tell me / us
> > why with rationale.
>
> > In looking over an installation, if I can assess three strikes against
> > it, I  walk away rather than "take it over"  and more often than not
> > save ending up buying myself a bushel of future trouble.
>
> > For example:
>
> > One strike if there is no wiring diagram in the can
> > Two strikes if the connections to the panel board don't leave at least
> > six inches of spare wire on each zone loop to work with in the future
> > (this guarantees you can expect trouble with service at the other end
> > of the loop)
> > One strike if the EOL connectors are in the can rather than at the end
> > of the line where they belong (a sure sign of an amateur)
> > One half strike if the installation was done by someone who only
> > installs casually, or does it in conjunction with other services such
> > as video, or home automation in which he specializes
> > One half strike if the home owner had the installation done by a
> > friend
> > One half strike if the installer has used the smallest can possible on
> > a system that is very expandable
> > One half strike if the panel can is located such that it cannot be
> > easily accessed for service.
> > One half strike if the home is totally finished in the basement AND it
> > was done by the casual installer above, so wiring errors and drywall
> > nailing problems are impossible to fix
> > Three full strikes if it was installed by certain companies which we
> > all know about in our local areas (in my area, for example, we call
> > this guy "Jimmy the slease")
> > One full strike if every point of contact is NOT home run
> > One full strike if doors are contacted  using magnetic contacts on the
> > heel of the door
> > Three full strikes if motions are wired in series AND they come back
> > to the can on one single wire
>
> > I am sure there are other points I have missed
>
> > RHC
> >From the looks of the replies you're getting I think I can say that
>
> most people don't actually do enough takeovers, ( as compared to you,
> apparently) to actually put it on a score card. I'd guess that most
> just look at the quality of the work. Look at the placement and
> quality of detectors, and contacts to see if they look amature-ish or
> installed by inexperiened installers, splicing and connection methods)
> Do detalied questioning about the problems the client has
> experiened ..... If there are any potential problem spots, do a
> physical inspection and metering test to confirm any major problem,
> ( Like funky resistance readings) And determine if you can get past
> the lockout codes.
>
> Once getting past all that, if .... (and letting the client know up
> front), if during the take over, other problems become apparent, bring
> them to the attention of the owner and they've got to be fixed at
> whatever the cost. If not, THEN unfortunately, you have to walk away.
> That's the way I do it.
>
> I wouldnt take the time to set up any kind of "three strikes you're
> out" system, because most of my jobs are new large residential, new
> construction or for existing clients with only an occasional take over.