Re: Best place to buy parts for those of us who don't have a dealers license ?

[Frank Olson <Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Robert L Bass wrote:

> On that we disagree.  Alarm installation isn't rocket science.
> There are a few basic principals to properly installing motion
> detectors, glass breaks, magnetic contacts and smoke detectors.
> With advice from an experienced technician, anyone with a modicum
> of tool skills and a bit of patience can do a proper
> installation.

What exactly *is* your experience??  "Running an alarm company" isn't
installing or servicing equipment.  Owning a restaurant doesn't make you
a chef.  From the information I have, you were licensed in CT between
1984 and 2000 (and even this fact doesn't prove you were actually
involved in installation/service).  You didn't live in CT for at least
three years (between 1993 and 1996).  You started your online business
and were posting full time in numerous Newsgroups between 1996 and the
present, moved to Florida in 1999.  How much actual experience do you
have installing alarms??


>
> The problems with DIY installations are most often associated
> with poor quality hardware sold by some vendors (both online and
> brick and mortar) and the lack of technical support.

Yet you sell DSC and Ademco contacts, both products which you continue
to deride.  I've witnessed numerous individuals who post in the group
out of frustration because they can't get ahold of you.  Your messages
are full, and your email is set to "auto-respond".  How many complaints
at the BBB do you have and what proportion involve lack of response??


>
>
>>Unlike cable tv, LAN, or telephone installation, which are
>>fairly straightforward, there are numerous environmental,
>>electronic, and application oriented considerations that,
>>when applied properly, are invisible to the end user.
>
>
> Anything invisible to the end user is likely invisible to a paid
> installer as well.

"Likely"??  You really don't know what you're talking about, do you??


>
>
>>This is why my alarm system never falses or does anything
>>unexpected- (unless it eventually happens to develop a
>>problem due to electronics failure) I know what environmental
>>factors to account for in designing the system, which
>>equipment & options best suit my particular application &
>>lifestyle, and some simple but very important electrical/electronic
>>principles that guide the installation parameters for not just the
>>system at "rest", but also in every conceivable situation or
>>condition that it might be called upon to react to.
>
>
> The reality is that those considerations are mainly determined by
> discussing the alarm plan before selecting the equipment and
> planning the installation.  A good DIY store will employ
> experienced technicians who know what questions to ask to help
> the client make those assessments.

What "experienced technicians" do you employ??  Who are they??  What are
their qualifications??  Seems to me that there is a distinct lack of
such information on your website.  Your prices are high and the number
of complaints at the BBB keeps climbing.  Why is it you're running four
different websites all selling the same thing again??

>
>
>>If you botch your cable tv installation, you can't watch your
>>favorite program. If you don't install your telephones properly,
>>you might have to use your cell phone. If you don't install your
>>alarm system properly, (which is much more than running a
>>wire from point A to point B, in most cases) you put your life
>>and property at greater risk...
>
>
> If you screw up while driving you put yourself and your family at
> much greater risk.

Uh-huh...  And using the "driving" example in this instance is an insult
to the family of the woman you killed *while driving*.


> Yet most Americans choose to DIY rather than
> hire a professional driver.

And most Americans who "DIY" would recognize when it's time to pull over
too.  Somehow I can't see you doing a "professional job" at anything so
far (other than running your mouth off).


> Frankly, alarm installation is not a
> complex art.  There are certain basic questions that must be
> answered to determine which system is appropriate, which
> detectors will best work in the environment (for example, are
> there pets, how many, how active and how large).

Oh??  And how do you determine which "system is appropriate"??  I'm
wondering when you'd ever "recommend" DSC considering how you extoll
it's virtues on your multiple websites.


>
> A good technician can determine whether the homeowner's needs
> will be better suited by a simple, burg only system or a complete
> home automation system.  Beyond that, running wire from A to B
> and physically connecting the components together is simple
> enough.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!  Right, Bass...  Only a "technician" can
determine whether a homeowner wants a home automation system or a
"simple, burg only system"...  Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!


>
> I'll grant you that many DIY projects are not properly supported
> and that those installations are subject to greater incidence of
> false alarms, as well as possible failure.

Which would tend to rank the systems you sell and "support" amoung the
ones with the "greater incidence of false alarms" and failures.


> But when the DIYer is
> experienced or has proper technical support from the store where
> s/he bought the system false alarms and system failures are less
> of a problem than with many alarm companies.

"When the DIYer is experienced"?  At what??  Alarm installation??  As
for receiving "proper technical support", I seriously doubt that anyone
would be getting this from *your* store...  How's the weather in Bahia
by the way??


>
> The other side of this coin is that while there are many truly
> talented, caring individuals in this trade whose installations
> are impeccable, there are also far too many jerks like that moron
> from Milford who have zero technical skill and even less concern
> for their vict... er, customers' security.

Ahhhh...   So...  you've actually *seen* one of his installations??  How
did they differ from yours??


>
> You may be a fine, competent installer and your installations
> might employ nothing but the best.  Without having seen your work
> or heard anything to the contrary, I prefer to assume as much.
> But you and I both know the kind of trash work many of these
> so-called "authorized dealers" do every day.
>
> We all know that false alarm problems that plague our industry
> are, by and large, the result of shoddy professional workmanship
> and poor customer training.

What statistics are you referring to here??  Where can I find the
specific reference to "shoddy professional workmanship and poor customer
training"??


> Since the prospective customer has
> no way to know in advance whether the fellow proposing to install
> an alarm system is like you or like Milford, he may have a better
> chance of getting it right by DIY.

Since the prospective customer has no way of knowing he's dealing with a
convicted felon when he emails or calls you, he may have a better chance
of getting it right with a *licensed* Alarm Company employing *licensed*
professional technicians.


>
>
>>That's not to say it "can't" be done, but someone who advises
>>that "anyone can do it- no problem" is misleading you and
>>minimizing the risks involved- usually for their own financial
>>benefit...
>
>
> That is patently unfair.

Only the fact that what he said is the truth.  You have so much as
admitted that you carry DSC and Ademco contacts only because you don't
want to "lose a sale".


> The reality is that most people can
> indeed install their own alarms and do so effectively and
> properly.

Heh...  Now you've "switched" again.  "Most people"??


> I might just as easily say that anyone who tells a
> customer that the only way to get a proper installation is to
> hire a paid technician is misleading them for financial gain.

You say that frequently.  And a "paid technician" is who??  Someone
who's employed by an alarm company perhaps??  Someone with more than
just a modicum of tool skills??  Someone with demonstrated experience
that is earning substantially more than minimum wage??  Someone that's
*licensed*??


> The truth is that most consumers don't want to DIY -- some
> because they haven't the time or inclination and others because
> they don't have any tool skills.

OK... now you've gone from "most people can install their own alarms" to
"most consumers don't want to DIY"...


> DIY is probably less than 2% of
> the alarm industry marketplace.

And with stores like yours that number's liable to fall to 1%.


> I wouldn't be surprised to hear
> that DIY plumbing and electrical work are a similar proportion.

You wouldn't be, I know...  You'd be wrong again though...


>
> For those with zero ability to install anything, professional
> installation is a good choice as long as they know for certain
> the kind of workmanship and support they are going to receive
> before signing the contract.  For those who can handle a drill
> and a few simple tools plus the willingness to learn something
> new, DIY is a viable choice.

As long as they don't need the kind of "technical support" you provide.


>
>
>>If you still think that "any monkey" can install security systems...
>
>
> You are aware, I assume, that monkeys are not the only primates.
> I had a good laugh when one particularly obnoxious alarm
> installer said here that he didn't like being called a primate.
> :^)

Ahhh...  Is this same "obnoxious installer" you're referring to the one
you tried to get fired from his job??  The one whom you continue to
viciously attack whenever he posts into the group??


>
>
>>install your own, then call your local electrical inspector to
>>have him inspect your work...
>
>
> By way of contrast, most professionally installed alarms on
> existing homes are not inspected because most alarm companies
> don't bother pulling permits unless it's new construction.  In
> many places this is a violation of law and in some it exposes the
> consumer to fines should an inspector see the work later.

Really??  Perhaps this was your "experience".  It's certainly not been
mine.  Permits are pulled for every job.  To "get caught" without one
exposes the company doing the work to some pretty nasty stuff.  ISTR
that you found yourself in exactly this situation in CT...


>
>
>>If your workmanship passes muster, keep track of your false
>>alarm rate over a period of time...
>
>
> If it's anything better than 98% false, the DIY job is better
> than the industry standard for professionally installed systems.

Uh-huh...  sure...