Re: CBUS problem, can I bounce an idea off you...

["andywhitfield2002" <andywhitfield2002@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Paul,

I've got 700va, 1000va, 1500va and 2000va Powerware double conversion UPSs.
These keep the output voltage at a steady 230Vac all the time.
Would one of these do the job?

Andy the UPS Man

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Stuart, interesting reading... - although their own docco
*seems* =
to
> suggest the CBUS units are in fact quite tolerant to voltage
fluctuations=
...
> - 6.9 talking about running on UPS suggests the range is as wide as
> 190V-265V - in which case, my 196V *should* be OK... - it clearly
isn't
> though...
>=20
> Is Andy Whitfield the UPS man still here? - If so, - Andy, have you
got a
> small-ish UPS that meets this spec:
>=20
> "All C-Bus units that are mains powered are designed to operate
from a
> sinusoidal=20
> voltage waveform. If an Inverter Supply (that produces a square wave
> voltage) is used,=20
> C-Bus units may not be fully functional or may become damaged.=20
> Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) can be used, if the output voltage
and
> frequency=20
> are within acceptable limits for C-Bus units that require mains power.
Th=
ese
> limits are: -=20
> That the UPS must operate between the voltages 190V and 265V.=20
> That the UPS must maintain a frequency of 50Hz or 60Hz, =B13Hz. The
frequ=
ency
> may=20
> only vary by 3Hz over 1 minute."
>=20
> Cheers.
>=20
> Paul G.
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Stuart Poulton
> Sent: 25 September 2012 20:27
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] CBUS problem, can I bounce an idea off you...
>=20
> Paul,
>=20
> The not a cbus owner, but the following is interesting reading
>=20
> http://www3.clipsal.com/cis/pdf_files/Inside_C-Bus.pdf
>=20
> In particular section 6.8 onwards
>=20
> Stuart
>=20
> On 25 Sep 2012, at 20:17, Paul Gordon wrote:
>=20
> > Chaps, hoping some CBUS users out there might be able to help me
keep=20
> > (what's left of) my sanity. - and restore my faith in the
absolute=20
> > rock-solid reliability of CBUS kit!
> >=20
> > Over the last couple of weeks, I've noticed increasing
unreliability=20
> > with my CBUS install.. At first it was quite rare, the very
first=20
> > problem happened about a month ago, but as time has passed it
has=20
> > become more and more frequent, and it's been driving me nuts.
> >=20
> > In a nutshell, almost every one of my output units
intermittently=20
> > fails completely. meaning I cannot switch any lights or
appliances on=20
> > that module on or off.
> >=20
> > Most of my output units include a power supply, so my initial
thought=20
> > of a network power issue seemed unlikely. When the problem
occurs,=20
> > neither the CBUS or UNIT led's are on, and the local channel
override=20
> > buttons on the unit do not function - for all intents and
purposes the=
=20
> > unit appears completely dead. But the thing is if I scan the
network=20
> > with CBUS Toolkit, the unit appears, and reports its CBUS
voltage=20
> > (30.2V in this case.) - and yet NOTHING is working. - I'm looking
at=20
> > one right now. physically it is dead, but it is talking to
toolkit.
> >=20
> > On all occasions when this occurs, it seems to just
"magically" fix=20
> > itself after some period of time, which can be anything from
minutes to
> hours.
> >=20
> > I have just started to formulate a theory, based on a few
observations.
> >=20
> > CBUS Toolkit is not showing the Line/Mains Present indicator for
the=20
> > units that are currently "dead".
> >=20
> > I just measured the mains voltage supply at the input to the
module..=20
> > - its currently reading a mere 196VAC on my multimeter.
> >=20
> > The local power supplier has had the mains off in the area for
several=
=20
> > hours today, - following a letter I received about a week ago=20
> > informing me it would be off today for essential repair work
following
> problems in the area.
> >=20
> > Now it all starts to make sense.
> >=20
> > All this time I've been tearing my hair out because of the=20
> > intermittent and sporadic nature of the behaviour. - that pretty
much=20
> > seemed to logically rule out most types of hardware and/or
cabling=20
> > failure. - although that hasn't stopped me crawling around the=20
> > attic/cellar etc. trying to find a break in the CBUS network
cable (I=20
> > thought maybe a mouse was chewing through it somewhere) - but the
fact=
=20
> > the none of the input units *ever* had a problem confused me even
more
> with the theory of a CBUS network problem.
> >=20
> > I think the fact that my problems only started about a month ago,
and=20
> > the letter from the leccy co can't be coincidental. - I'm
thinking=20
> > there must have started to be a low voltage condition on and off.
-=20
> > based on local demand perhaps? - the problems always seemed to be
worse=
in
> the evening.
> >=20
> > Also adding to the confusion, is that if I'm right, and this
*IS*=20
> > caused by my mains supply being undervoltage, - absolutely
nothing=20
> > else electrical in the house has exhibited any kind of problem at
all.=
=20
> > - it's exclusively, and only CBUS output units that don't like
it.
> >=20
> > Looking at the manual for the units, it does specify supply
voltage=20
> > 220-240V
> > - Mine is currently well under.=20
> >=20
> > So my question is this. - on the CBUS units *with* power supply,
I'm=20
> > guessing it must be true that the CBUS circuitry in that unit
can=20
> > still function on CBUS network power coming from other powered
units..=
=20
> > - even if the unit isn't on the mains itself. - my observations
suggest
> this is true.
> > - which is why it still talks to toolkit, as some other units
in=20
> > different parts of the house are still "alive" and
supplying CBUS netwo=
rk
> power.
> >=20
> > Does anyone know if the CBUS output units really *are* that
sensitive=20
> > to variations in mains supply? - and if so, might it be true
that=20
> > units without a CBUS power supply are LESS sensitive? - because
it=20
> > seems to be the case that I've never had a problem with a couple
of uni=
ts
> that lack a PSU.
> > (although they are closer to the incoming mains well, so that may
be=20
> > the reason).
> >=20
> > Off to complain to the local leccy company methinks!
> >=20
> > If you got this far.. Thanks for listening!
> >=20
> > Paul G.




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