RE: Re: Whole House Rennovation Automation Plans - Have I got it right?

["Paul Gale" <groups2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

The other Paul G also has these ;)

I'd certainly recommend HV over Comfort for most of the HA logic - HV is
significantly more flexible and capable although you may be able to just
get away with Comfort on it's own -  depends how much of the clever stuff
you want to do?

Paul.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Paul Gordon
> Sent: 16 April 2008 16:17
> To: UKHA Group
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Whole House Rennovation Automation Plans -
> Have I got it right?
>
> I do indeed have a great many of the exact systems you are proposing,
> and I have them all talking to each other remarkably well.
>
> CBUS - Check. Absolutely rock solid. Integrates very well with Comfort
> SONOS - Check. Absolutely rock solid. Integrates quite well with both
> Comfort & CBUS, albeit with some PC middleware.
> COMFORT - Check. Absolutely rock solid. Integrates very well with
CBUS.
> KAT5 - Check. Absolutely Rock solid. - No sign of (or likelihood of?)
> the switcher ever appearing though... :-(
> HOMETRONIC - Next on my list. Hopefully implementation this summer.
> Also
> planning the relay unit to interface to Comfort for (very) basic state
> signaling.
>
> I *understand* the points & reservations about mixing security
& HA,
> although I don't necessarily agree with all of them. In terms of
NACOSS
> compliance for an alarm system, you have to give up so much of the
> intelligence & nice integration features that it becomes pointless
> (IMO)
> to have a HA capable alarm anyway. - If you *need* the compliance for
> insurance purposes, I think it would be far better to install a fully
> compliant, but "dumb" alarm system for a fraction of the
price.
>
> However, I have long felt that security & automation are two sides
of
> the same coin... - turning lights on when you're away to simulate
> occupancy for example... - is that security, or is it automation?
There
> are *sooo* many aspects of automation that absolutely only make sense
> when taken in context with the security state, that for me, it was a
> no-brainer: Comfort, and utilise the full gamut of automation and
> integration possibilities that this provides.
>
> I don't have a Homevision, so I can't comment on the friendliness of
> the
> programming, or the automation capabilities in terms of the
"space"
> available. Comfort certainly has enough programmability (responses, IR
> commands, counters, timers, variables, etc. etc. etc.) for my needs.
>
> I don't especially agree with the assertion about the programming
> environment for Comfort these days either. Certainly in the early
days,
> programming Comfort virtually required learning machine code.
Nowadays,
> it's no harder than any other programming environment that I've come
> across, complete with full human-friendly programming constructs that
> we've all seen before (IF, THEN, ELSE, etc.) There's also a
programming
> wizard that builds response code for you by picking commands off a
> context-sensitive list. I now find it very easy to program Comfort.
>
> Granted, you *DO* have to apply a bit of common sense, - this *IS*
your
> security system after all, so obviously you need to be careful not to
> compromise your security with your programming. This I feel, does only
> demand a modicum of common sense though; it's not a massive worry IMO.
> -
> In nearly 10 years with Comfort in my house, I think I can honestly
say
> I've never had an issue where my automation programming has caused any
> problems with security. (Me drilling through cables is another matter
> though!)
>
> As an example, I just really quickly fired up Comfigurator and
produced
> the Comfort code for the first of the examples from your original
> email....
> <SNIP>
> If  Hours >= 16 Then				!If after 4PM
>     If  SecurityMode = SecurityOff Then	!If alarm is unset
>         If Counter Counter020 = 0 Then	!if lounge light is OFF
>             CBUS On 2 1  	! Turn on light A
>             CBUS On 2 2  	! Turn on light B
>             CBUS On 2 3  	! Turn on light C
>         End If
>     End If
> End If
> <END SNIP>
>
> That is genuine Comfigurator code, which could be uploaded to Comfort
> as
> is, and will work. - look simple enough? (Everything after the ! is a
> comment). Also bear in mind that I've left all the internal object
> names
> at their defaults, - for easier readability, I *could* have changed
the
> name of Counter020 for example to reflect that it is the lounge light.
>
> Comfort does also talk to other CBUS applications beyond the
ubiquitous
> lighting application (56). The Comfort UCM is able to place commands
on
> the CBUS network addressed to any application address. (Although I
> haven't actually tried this functionality). So, comfort can set any
> CBUS
> group address, on any application, to any level. It can also specify
> ramp rates. Conversely, it is also instantly aware of any CBUS group
> changing state or changing level, and can react accordingly, and
> instigate a whole bunch of other actions in response, complete with
all
> the logic capabilities at its disposal. - what more is there?
>
> Comfort also integrates very well with a PC, via a standard UCM
(either
> RS232 or Ethernet). Using this interface it's possible to open up
> comfort (and thus everything else connected to it), to a full, rich PC
> environment, so you can integrate it with the web, IM, email, etc.
etc.
> I use Homeseer for this additional layer, which has a very good
> integration plugin for Comfort. This is the component that enables me
> to
> integrate SONOS into the mix... SONOS talks uPnP, which neither
Comfort
> nor CBUS understand, but Windows does... Thus I go from a CBUS switch,
> into Comfort, then into Homeseer, which then issues SONOS commands. -
> thus I use CBUS switches to start/stop playback in various rooms.
>
> As a little example of this integration; if I'm out on the road &
want
> to phone SWMBO at home, - but she's on the phone to her mother (so
will
> be ages!)... I can pop into MSN Messenger on my laptop/mobile, send a
> "speak" command, and have whatever I want spoken via TTS on
the SONOS
> zone in whichever room SWMBO happens to be in... MSN integrates with
> Homeseer, so I start an IM conversation with my Homeseer machine, send
> a
> "speak" command, Homeseer can then reference the Comfort
sensor
> information to see which room last detected any movement, then
switches
> the SONOS zoneplayer in that room to the line input connected to the
> Homeseer PC, speaks my text, then sets everything back to how it was
> before...
>
> Homeseer also provides a web interface that allows access and control
> over all the CBUS, SONOS, and Comfort devices, - although for obvious
> reasons access to comfort via the web interface is deliberately
> limited!
>
> There is shortly also to be a new touchscreen component to Homeseer
> which may be of interest. (Due August timeframe at the moment)
>
> HTH
>
> Paul G.
>
> Phew! - I hadn't realized how long I'd waffled on for!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Ben McCormack
> Sent: 16 April 2008 13:58
> To: UKHA Group
> Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Whole House Rennovation Automation Plans - Have
I
> got it right?
>
> Kevin
>
> With regards to HDMI and Matrix Switching.
>
> My plans are to use Apple TVs local to each TV for downloaded content.
> With this we don't
> really do DVDs any more.
>
> Then I will transmit TIVO signal around the house with KAT5 Modules.
>
> This should satisfy Video distribution.
>
>
> I can see your point about Comfort - Is the Alarm system the right
> place
> for HA Control.
>
> Insurance is not a concern, I am not planning to receive any insurance
> discount because of
> the alarm. The 5% I will save is not enough benefit if I forget to set
> the alarm one day.
>
> So if I took some of the logic out of Comfort I would need to
replicate
> this in Homevision.
> Are you still producing the CBUS Gateways?
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, Kevin Hawkins <yahoogroupskh@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi ben,
> >
> > You might also want to consider how you might distribute HDMI
signals
> > and also the matrix switching of the video sources  ?
> >
> > Yes, you will likely need some scheduler / logical  controller...
> either
> > standalone or a PC based application.  PaulG has a very similar
setup
> to
> > your proposal...  I do like the approach you are taking of having
> > standalone systems that work independently - and do what they are
> > intended to do really well (HomeTronic, Comfort, C-Bus, Sonos
etc) -
> the
> > challenge comes with integrating them all.
> >
> > ATM The HV controller is really good value (half price) .  The
three
> > nice things about HV are that it is very capable but easy to
> understand,
> > 100% dependable and of course it runs standalone without a PC so
> > available 24/7.    The restriction for your setup is essentially
that
> it
> > was designed around an X10 lighting model.  It does now support
> 'Custom
> > Lighting' which could allow you [ via a C-Bus gateway ;-) ] to
link
> in
>
> > with your C-Bus setup.  It wont interact with Comfort too easily
> either
> > although you can use inputs and outputs to synch alarm status of
> course.
> >
> > Comfort is also of course well capable of 24/7 independent
operation
> > although outiside of the alarm functionality it is a little
'tight'
> in
>
> > how you have to code things. By this I mean that you need a bit
of
> > experience and it's more programmatic (lower level language) with
> > limited space than say HV.  However you would have tight
> alarm/lighting
> > integration. For me it's a bit against the grain to impose too
much
> HA
>
> > control within what is essentially your alarm system but it's a
> > dependable and capable system.   I just wouldn't want to be
> constantly
>
> > revising programs in an alarm system I depend on.   You may need
to
> > consider any insurance aspects as well.   I haven't looked at
current
> > functionality of the Comfort/C-Bus connectivity - for example the
> > ability to handle other C-Bus applications apart from
lighting.(??)
> > C-Bus now has many applications in use eg 'trigger' 'sensors'
> 'heating'
> > 'security' etc etc..   I believe Comfort still links to C-Bus via
> their
> > application group levels synched to internal Comfort variables.
> >
> > There are of course the C-Bus automation engines like the PAC
> controller
> > , touchscreens and their software applications like HomeGate.
> Depends
> > on how wide a control you want from one system, in terms of the
> devices
> > and functionality encompassed.  This is where it gets interesting
-
> > getting many disparate systems talking to each other and all
> manageable
> > from one HA controller.  These standalone systems have gained
their
> > reputations as best of breed often because they are somewhat
closed
> to
>
> > external integration.
> >
> >     Kevin
> >
> >
> >   Ben McCormack wrote:
> > >
> > > All
> > >
> > > I am getting to the final stages of planning a complete
house
> > > renovation including full
> > > rewire, as part of this I intend to automate the property
and try
> and
> > > integrate systems as
> > > much as possible.
> > >
> > > I was hoping to have my plans checked by the knowledge of
the
> group!
> > >
> > > Audio - 5 Zones
> > > -------------
> > > Sonos running from Mini Mac - 5 Zone Players and 4 Remotes
> > >
> > > Video
> > > -------
> > > Multiple Hacked Apple TVs
> > > KAT5 Units for Limited Tivo Distribution
> > >
> > > Lighting
> > > ----------
> > > CBUS Dimmers with Neo Switches in most rooms
> > >
> > > Alarm
> > > --------
> > > Comfort with CBUS Module
> > > PIR in each room
> > >
> > > Heating Control
> > > -------------
> > > Hometronic with Relay input module to Comfort
> > >
> > > IR
> > > ----
> > > I would like to be able to achieve 2 things
> > > 1. IR Distribution around the house ie for Remote Tivo
> > > 2. Use IR to control some systems ie When PIR in the Kitchen
is
> > > activated then send an IR
> > > command to turn the TV in the kitchen on (Just an example)
> > >
> > > For IR Distribution I will use either Xantech or Keene
> > >
> > > For IR control and intelligence I was planning to use
Comfort.
> Would
>
> > > this be the right thing
> > > to use?
> > >
> > > Cabling
> > > -------
> > > Planning multiple CAT5e runs to each room in the house wired
back
> to
>
> > > Patch Panels in the
> > > loft where most of the equipment will be located.
> > >
> > > Temperature Monitoring
> > > ---------------------
> > > Independent of the Hometronic system I may want to add
temperature
> > > monitoring to each
> > > room. I am intend to run Cat5 cables to each room so I could
use
> > > 1-Wire sensors.
> > >
> > > System Intelligence
> > > ----------------
> > >
> > > One question that I have is regarding where the intelligence
should
> sit?
> > > I would like to be able to do things similar to this
> > >
> > > If the time is later than 16:00
> > > AND
> > > Alarm is unset
> > > AND
> > > No lights are on in the lounge
> > > THEN
> > > Turn on Lights A,B and C in the Lounge
> > >
> > > If a specific IR command is sent
> > > AND
> > > Alarm is unset
> > > AND
> > > Time is after 09:00
> > > THEN
> > > Turn Heating on in the Office
> > > AND
> > > Send IR command to switch TV on
> > >
> > > Can Comfort handle this sort of Logic processing? Is there
any
> other
>
> > > logic engine I should
> > > be considering? HomeVision?
> > >
> > > System Control
> > > -------------
> > >
> > > Webcontrol of all systems is essential
> > > Ideally I would like to have touchscreen but these will
probably be
> > > too expensive unless
> > > someone has a cheaper alternative?
> > >
> > > CCTV
> > > -----
> > > Not in the current plans. Could use IP Cameras at a later
date.
> > > Considering if a Video door phone integrated into comfort
may be an
> idea
> > >
> > > So, are these plans any good? Have I missed anything obvious
out?
> > >
> > > Any input will be appreciated
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 3031 (20080416) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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