Re: Strange X10 Lamp module problem

[dlh <dlh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Feb 1, 9:08=A0am, Art Todesco <actode...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 1/31/2012 4:22 PM, dlh wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 31, 8:55 am, Art Todesco<actode...@xxxxxxxxx> =A0wrote:
> >> On 1/30/2012 1:04 PM, dlh wrote:
>
> >>> On Jan 30, 9:16 am, Art Todesco<actode...@xxxxxxxxx> =A0 =A0wrote:
> >>>> Here a new one on me. =A0I have used X10 in my house since it came o=
ut and
> >>>> have never seen this. =A0I have 2 lamp modules plugged into the same
> >>>> outlet strip. =A0One is a stock lamp module, the other is a lamp mod=
ule,
> >>>> but with the solid state relay modification found on a few on-line
> >>>> sites. =A0It has worked perfectly for some time. =A0So this modifica=
tion
> >>>> actually makes it a silent appliance module. =A0But, it's still a la=
mp
> >>>> module at heart, only the output is a little different. =A0The are b=
oth
> >>>> set to B1. =A0The SSR modified module has 2 lamps (w/CFLs) connected=
 to
> >>>> it, hence the SSR. =A0 The other one has a heated warming blanket. =
=A0Last
> >>>> night, both were on and all of a sudden, both just shut down by
> >>>> themselves ... this is not the strange part. =A0After, neither would
> >>>> respond to any X10 commands. =A0I only used a wireless remote with
> >>>> transceiver for testing. =A0I probably should have tried a direct X1=
0
> >>>> command from a manual controller, but I don't think that would have =
made
> >>>> a difference. =A0And I never touched the transceiver, only the wirel=
ess
> >>>> remote. =A0At first I blamed the modification, as I hadn't noticed t=
hat
> >>>> the unmodified module was also off, =A0But then I discovered it too =
was
> >>>> off and wouldn't respond either. =A0After powering down bother modul=
es and
> >>>> re-powering, they now both work perfectly! =A0 I haven't a clue as t=
o what
> >>>> could have caused this problem. =A0It had to be some "command" or ps=
eudo
> >>>> command (noise?). =A0There are only 2 houses on the outside transfor=
mer.
> >>>> And, we are pretty far from any neighbors making it difficult to get
> >>>> rogue RF transmissions, i.e. lots in the subdivision are 3 - 4 acres=
.
> >>>> And the one neighbor on the same transformer doesn't have or even kn=
ow
> >>>> what X10 is. =A0Any ideas??
>
> >>> There have been many reports of sudden plagues of random ONs and/or
> >>> OFFs after the installation of a "Smart" Meter by various electrical
> >>> utilities in various parts of the country. All of them appear to use
> >>> LonTalk (although identifying it by the ANSI standard number) to
> >>> communicate between meters and the Data Aggregator which usually
> >>> serves all of the meters on the same transformer. It appears to affec=
t
> >>> X10-made modules and switches (but not those made by Smarthome).
>
> >> We have an RF reading electric meter in this house. =A0The guy from th=
e
> >> power company parks up at the top of the mountain and can access
> >> everyone below. =A0But this problem occurred at night and the modules =
both
> >> appeared to lock up in the off condition, until they were power cycled=
.
> >> =A0 =A0If it were only one, ok, but 2, side by side, on the same house=
 and
> >> unit code? =A0And, there were not other lockups in the entire house. =
=A0Weird.
>
> > Who is your electric utility? Duke Energy seems to have the most
> > problems and it's not only when the meter is being read.
>
> It's definitely Duke. =A0The power is not very constant. =A0I even see
> voltage drops from heat pump motors starting that are not in my house
> .... most likely, the guy across the street on the same transformer.
> But, X10 had been really clean. =A0Much cleaner than in my old house in
> suburban Chicago (for X10, that is). =A0I have called Duke for voltages
> going high, like 125 -130 volts. =A0When I called them, they immediately
> said it was their problem and corrected it within an hour or so. =A0But,
> over the months, it has crept up again, to about 120, which I guess is
> ok. =A0I think it crept up because others on the same feed complained
> about low voltage and they corrected it the easy way. =A0BTW, at 123 volt=
s
> or so, I've had some electronic equipment get squirrelly. =A0That's what
> made me start looking at voltages.

Duke and other utilities are using an Echelon Data Concentrator (or
similar devices made by others but still using LonTalk). I think there
is one per transformer and they act as a router with the ability to
query the meters, shed loads, etc. and send usage data to the central
office over the powerlines. They may not have implemented all of the
features initially. In the Cincinnati area numerous X10 users have
seen random turn-ons which appear to be caused by very high amplitude
86kHz signals from the data concentrators. Duke has told one person
that Echelon is working on a filter that they will try at his
residence when received.

     http://www.echelon.com/metering/nes_dc.htm

Jeff Volp has found a combination of clamp-on ferrites plus a filter
across the two hot legs that also seems to filter the signals.

I suspect it's the amplitude (which rises in response to "noise")  of
the signals that is causing the problem, acting like spikes which X10
has acknowledged causes similar issues. In two cases, people
experiencing the problem found that Smarthome made X-10 modules set to
the same address appeared to be immune. This was, however, a very
small sample size so YMMV.

This may or may not be the cause of your issue but I think it's
worthwhile for all X10 users to be aware of it with the nationwide
rollout of smart meters.

I live across the river from Cincinnati and my area was an early test
area for Duke about 5 years ago. I saw no X-10 issues (most of my gear
is not X10-made) but did have some inexpensive appliances with
electronic controls go berserk.