Re: Do these exist: "Instant on" or very rapid start CFL???

["Robert Green" <robert_green1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Smarty" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:isrcmo$sb5$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On 6/8/2011 10:34 PM, Robert Green wrote:
> > "Smarty"<nobody@xxxxxxxxxx>  wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

> >> Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
> >> on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.
> > That's great news.  I am about to order one from Amazon to see how they
> > interact with my X-10 home automation system.  CFL bulbs have been a
serious
> > problem for X-10 users because their electronic profile is so different
from
> > tungsten incandescent bulbs, the kind X-10 was designed around.  Of
course,
> > Amazon's price is double that of Lowe's, but it might be weeks before I
got
> > up that way and I wanted to see how X-10 controller modules reacted to
the
> > lightbulb.
> >
> > I'm hoping these will eliminate the terrible problem of CFL's turning
> > themselves back on because of how they work with the slight current
trickle
> > used in X-10 circuits to sense local control of the switch.  I've got my
> > fingers crossed.  It could be the miracle bulb for both of us!
> >
> > --
> > Bobby G.
> >
> >
> Bobby,
>
> I had a very elaborate X-10 set-up in my home, with many devices being
> controlled by remote switches, and most of the lighting controlled by
> both the dimmable and non-dimmable wall switches. I had a couple dozen
> devices in total, and a bridge to ensure that both of my 110 volt feeds
> were coupled to pass the comparatively weak control signals from some
> home branch circuits to another. The system worked pretty reliably for
> many years.

Howdy, fellow X10'er!  Too bad we didn't meet sooner because I think I could
have helped save your sizable-sounding investment in X10 gear.

> Once I switched to CFLs as well as standard fluorescent tubes, my X-10
> system became totally unreliable with all sorts of false triggers.
> Putting a scope on my AC line made it instantly obvious that the EMI
> created by these lighting devices was much stronger than the X-10
> signals. Furthermore, the X-10 code length was too short to ensure no
> false triggering, given the noise environment.

Unfortunately, there are wildly varying brands and designs of CFL's.  GE's
gave me NO end of trouble.  Then Marc Hult of CHA suggested the N:Vision
line of bulbs from Home Depot and suddenly, no more noise.  That simple
change made a world of difference.  While many noisy CFL's can be cured by
5A line filters, it's much, MUCH better to switch to a brand of bulbs that
isn't spewing EMI like Mt. Vesuvius during an eruption and that don't
require filtration.

> I disconnected all of my X-10 stuff but have considered going to a newer
> Zigby or other RF controlled local are net approach with supervised
> switches capable of reporting their status back to the controller.

X10 makes switches that can confirm their position to a central controller.
Zigbee has been "just around the corner" for at least 10 years now.  It's a
good idea - and home automation will take a quantum leap when manufacturers
build automation interfaces into their appliances - but it's been a long
time since the promise of Zigbee was made.


> I have had terrible luck with any AC carrier line devices, including some
> CCTV video cameras from Logitech and other devices which try to
> piggy-back on the AC lines once I went to CFLs and flouresents.

You probably do need to invest in some X-10 line filters and look at trying
different bulbs.  Pick up and scope an N:Vision bulb from Home Depot.  I
have two X-10 meters, the Monterey and the XTBM (well three, the Elk, but it
is rather primitive) that allow me to read noise levels in millivolts near
the AC zero crossing where the signal "resides."  The worst offender was a
Cellet cellphone charger that put out pseudo-X10 signals continuously,
corrupting nearby transmissions and blocking far away ones.  Second worst
was a shoplite that had tested "OK for X10" when I installed it (no noise or
signal attenuation) but that began to "sing" very loudly at 118KHz once the
bulbs started darkening at the ends.

> The noise levels are just overwhelming for these sensitive carrier
> devices like X-10. And the signaling was never designed to be robust
> enough to cope with the noisy channel either. They would need to do
> longer codes sent more redundantly to get anywhere near acceptable
behavior.

Politely beg to differ. I can't stress enough how my whole, huge and at the
time entirely unreliable X-10 installation came right under control as soon
as I put the XTB-IIR in at the panel.  The wife gained in two ways:  The X10
signals just plain worked now and since I was rearranging the panel, I was
able to add three new grounded lines to the kitchen.  It's as close to magic
as you're likely to get.  (-;

Up until I discussed the shortage of breakers in my panel with Jeff (to add
the XTB-IIR coupler/repeater/amp) I did not know about "dual skinny"
breakers.  I got a number of those, rebalanced the panel and added four new
circuits altogether.  Now my wife could operate a microwave, the toaster
oven and a hot plate all at the same time without blowing a breaker.
Win-win!

Check it out, I am sure you're be blown away if you add one to your system.
It sounds like a guy like you could even assemble your own.  Jeff "kits"
those DIY units even better than Heathkit so that there's no mistake, even
with tiny, unmarked diodes.

http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_reports.htm

--
Bobby G.