Re: Tying in GEM-X10 into Napco Gemini 816 Alarm System Controller

[Marc_F_Hult <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 12 Mar 2007 09:08:56 -0700, yeahprolly@xxxxxxx wrote in message
<1173715735.977430.193340@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>On Mar 6, 2:01 pm, Marc_F_Hult <MFH...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2007 08:49:53 -0800, yeahpro...@xxxxxxx wrote in message
>> <1173199791.480559.94...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>>
>> >I have recently had Slomins security (a central station alarm
>> >management company) install an alarm system in my house. They used a
>> >Napco Gemini 816 Central Controller. I'm trying to tie this into a
>> >home automation system I am starting to build. I see there is an X10
>> >integration module I can purchase (GEM-X10). I will be installing 3-
>> >way Switchlinc dimmer switches (2494m3) for my lights, which support
>> >both the Switchlinc protocol and X10 protocol.
>> >snip>
>> >2) Is there anything I am missing or is this a pretty straightforward
>> >thing to set up?
>>
>> >3) Any "gotchas" I need to worry about?
>>
>> >Thanks!
>>
>> As Robert points out, the [greatly] preferred Napco controller for Home
>> Automation is the 9600. Not too that incorporating a Napco 9600 in a
>> overall HA system with other HA subsystems typically requires using a PC
>> running HA software 24x7 which may not be what you want.
>>
>> Nine years ago I started the HA system in my house around an existing
Napco
>> security system by upgrading an older, simpler Napco panel to a model
9600.
>> This was similar to your current status. In retrospect, the decision to
>> retain the existing contractor and monitoring company was a good one.
>>
>> If I had it to do today, I might have reused the wiring and sensor
>> infrastructure and installed an Elk M1G panel www.elkproducts.com or
>> OmniPro www.homeauto.comor Stargate www.jdstechnologies.com
>> self-contained HA controller instead. (I now have both Napco 9600 and an
>> Elk M1G --  a Belt-and-Suspenders approach, as it were).
>>
>> Consider re-evaluating what you have installed that is of value given
>> your  objectives. It may be that Napco is not the best route and that
>> you are early enough in your HA planning that you can easily and
>> cost-effectively change trajectories.  This depends in large part on
>> what you want to do and whether having a PC with software
>> (eg www.HomeSeer.com, www.charmedquark.com,  www.automatedliving.com)
>> running 24 x7 is in your plans.
>>
>> Depending on how extensive the security wiring and sensors you have are,
>> most of the value may be in the wiring (=labor) and sensors  rather than
>> the panel itself.
>>
>> 1) What specifically did your contractor install in the way of wiring
>> and sensors?
>> 2) Do you have a contract with the monitoring company that limits your
>> options?
>> 3) What other security panels does the monitoring provider support
>> (assuming your high comfort level with them) ?
>>
>> ... Marc
>> Marc_F_Hult
>> www.ECOntrol.org
>
>Marc,
>
>Thanks for the complete response and for your thoughts - I certainly
>appreciate your insight.
>
>My concerns mostly relate to having a 5-year contract with Slomin's
>for alarm monitoring. Were you in this situation when you changed out
>your panel? I'm a bit unsure as to what might unravel if I swap this
>panel in terms of the alarm monitoring.
>
>I have a wired/wireless system with window contacts and glass break
>sensors everywhere. All entry doors (3) are alarmed similarly, and I
>have two keypads. I also have two fire sensors tied in. Right now I
>only have an internal siren, but I plan to hook up an external one as
>well (I believe that part should be pretty easy, even given the fact
>that I have the GEM-P816 panel right now).
>
>The contract is written such that it is pretty binding - to the order
>that "customer cannot touch any of the equipment installed". I don't
>know how firm these contracts are though, given that I wouldn't be
>calling them for "tech support" on a new panel (which is what I'm sure
>they want to avoid). I'm sure they also want to continue receiving
>their $30 or so a month monitoring fee for 5 years).
>
>I do plan to have a 24x7 monitoring system running (I already have
>other servers running 24x7 for other purposes). That's definitely in
>the plan.
>
>I guess what I want to do right now is start making investments that I
>won't need to throw away, even if I am limited for the first 5 years
>due to my contract. My current thoughts and questions in my head are:
>
>1) If I get the GEM-X10 module, would I not need this if I upgrade the
>panel in the future to one of the ones you mentioned? Would I need an
>"installers code" to install and/or configure this module?
>2) I think there is a serial connection I can get to connect from my
>computer into the GEM-P816 to grab some intelligence, even if it's not
>automated. If I can grab a log, I'm hoping I can easily interpret when
>various zones were open and closed, when codes were typed in, etc. If
>this has to be a manual process with my unit, I'm OK with that,
>provided my investment is not that great to grab this stuff. I know
>Slomins can connect in to grab this information remotely, so I think I
>should be able to grab it locally if I have the right equipment.
>
>Thanks in advance for your help.
>Ken

Your situation is parallel to my own experience. Because I wanted to retain
the installer (he knew the system intimately) and monitoring (even though I
had no contract) I had him swap out the existing Napco panel for a Napco
9600 that I bought from Robert and which can communicate with HA software.

This is the best of both worlds. You keep an entirely conventional security
system that can be maintained by a specialist but you can hook into the
system for HA control purposes using (eg) HomeSeer www.HomeSeer.com using a
PC running 24x7.

There are some limitations as to what you can control on the Napco from the
PC. For example, the software that I used previously (CyberHouse) purposely
did not allow disarming the system from the PC (although there was a
work-around).

Your challenge would/will be to see if your installer will swap the Napco
GEM-P816 for a 9600 and GEM-RS232 Kit (there was an upgrade to the RS-232
options. I trust that Robert will correct me if I'm out-of-date). This
should/will not affect in any way your contractors ability to monitor and
maintain the system, even over the phone line because that is a connection
separate from the RS-232.

You would then use (eg) HomeSeer to control lighting -- via X-10 if that is
your choice of lighting control protocol. But using a PC will give you many
other newer and better options for lighting (Lutron Radio RA, INSTEON,
Z-Wave, UPB, Centralite, etc) as well as other subsystems such as audio,
voice command, video, IR commands, and so on.

I have the same sort of arrangement with thermostats using Aprilaire (was
Enerzone) 8870 communicating thermostats that control the boiler, furnace,
heat pump, and two air handlers with AC units. The HVAC guys can regard the
thermostats as conventional, but I can change operation and setpoints and
obtain status via my PC running HomeSeer or CQS www.charmedquark.com .

I've described this PCentric approach as a 'federated system' in which each
subsystem has conventional standalone capability and can be can installed
and serviced by the respective trades (HVAC, Security, Lighting etc) but
can also be controlled by a PC over which I have complete and exclusive
secure control locally and over the net. I have such a system since 1999.

HTH ... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org