Re: Insteon receptacles?

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

[Answering two posts with one]

> The SmartHome devices have always struck me as a little too big to
> cram into an outlet box successfully.

Sorry I was unclear.  Since the thread was about receptacles, I was basing
my comments not on the switch series, but on their plug-in Switchlinc
"appliance" modules which, my wife assures me, are much larger than their
X-10 counterparts.  (I just measured one and it's substantially larger than
its X-10 counterpart in every dimension - an inch taller, at least.)  AFAIK,
Smarthome's line is conspicuously absent a switched in-wall 110VAC
receptacle so we have nothing to really compare it to except the X-10
device.

An outlet is always going to have a minimum depth based on the length of a
common three-prong plug.  Now, multiply that by two and a duplex wall outlet
module *has* to consume more space than a comparable switch module right on
the drawing board (or CAD/CAM screen for all you young whippersnappers!)

A duplex outlet almost certainly has to consume more cubic inches in a box
than a switch will.  You can shrink a switch in PLC devices to miniature
size because it's not directly switching the load, it's triggering a larger
current switching device like a triac or a relay.  But you can't shrink the
number of cubic inches lost to outlet sockets unless you make them external
to the outlet.  Hence the appliance module.  Just put two X-10 appliance
modules head-to-head and you'll see.  Then compare two SwitchLinc appliance
modules  head-to-head they take up the volume that *three* X-10 appliance
modules could fit in.

I think X-10 "in-the-wall" outlets (only 1 outlet switched, BTW, probably to
reduce size demands) have a high failure rate because they are packed too
tight and the components suffer from heat damage.  I would have to run
temperature tests to be sure, but the plastic cams in the failed ones I've
seen have become brittle from the heat and break and tend to look like the
brown spot that appears above the transformer in their minicontrollers.

It wouldn't surprise me if SmartHome *does* have a duplex outlet in beta,
but that the failure rate is too high to release it without a redesign.
I've seen some pretty impressive internal sparking from X-10 appliance
modules switching loads close to capacity.  I'll bet that back-EMF and all
sorts of other issues involving relay switching of large inductive AC loads
just *plagues* appliance module designers.  Dimmers are typically rated for
much smaller and "friendlier" loads.  IIRC, X-10's max switch rating is 500W
but their appliance modules are rated for 1500W.  That makes comparing light
dimming switches to outlets just a little unequal.  Which gets me back to
what I said in the first place:

> The SmartHome devices have always struck me as a little too big to
> cram into an outlet box successfully.

I'll rephrase my original comment "the SmartHome appliance modules have
always struck me as a little too big to successfully create a duplex outlet
in-wall receptacle from their existing design."

They still do!  :-)

--
Bobby G.

"BruceR" <br@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Et9Ef.6085$Ou1.627@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> All the Insteon, ICON and Switchlinc plug-in modules use the same
> housings with various openings as needed.
>  The Insteon and ICON wall switches are only 1" deep - about the same a
> standard switch. Both use the same housing with the only difference
> being the paddle bezel and number of LEDs.  The back is clear so you can
> see that they also share the same circuitry. It is obvious that these
> are the same units with different feature sets. Perhaps the ICONs are
> missing a chip or maybe it's just a firmware difference.
>
> From:Robert Green
> ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx
>
> The SmartHome devices have always struck me as a little too big to
> cram into an outlet box successfully.
> > --
> > Bobby G.
> >
> > "Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:43e0abc4.30544984@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Does the ICON use Switchlinc plastics?
> >>
> >> Another factor may be that the volume of X-10 business that
> >> SmartHome has done historically gives them reliable projections of
> >> market demand for a specific device. If the projected demand is low
> >> and it requires new plastics it's likely to have a low priority.
> >>
> >> "BruceR" <br@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have no inside info so I don't really know when or even if they
> >>> will offer them but I can't see any reason that they couldn't if
> >>> they thought there was a market for them.  As for WHY they don't
> >>> have them now, if you look at the Insteon products released to
> >>> date, you'll notice that they are using all the same housings and
> >>> plastics as for their X10 Switchlinc products. Since they never had
> >>> a Switchlinc outlet they will have to do the plastics for that
> >>> which takes some time and money. Probably just not at the top of
> >>> the list yet.
> >>>
> >>> From:Fabrizio Santini
> >>> biziosan@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>>> BruceR wrote:
> >>>>> Not yet
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From:Fabrizio Santini
> >>>>> biziosan@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I was wondering if there is any Insteon enabled wall receptacle
> >>>>>> out there. Something similar to the ones available for X10.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you think they are going to be available soon? What's the
> >>>> problem of building Insteon enabled receptacles?
>
>