Re: Insteon receptacles?

["BruceR" <br@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yes, you're right, I was comparing the wall switches. The plug-in
modules are needlessly huge. The Leviton X10 plug-ins are a nice size,
wish they'd copy that design!  BTW, Leviton offers a version of the X10
outlet with both switched rather than just the one that X10 offers. It's
really just a matter of internal wiring as they are not switched
seperately.

From:Robert Green
ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx

> [Answering two posts with one]
>
>> The SmartHome devices have always struck me as a little too big to
>> cram into an outlet box successfully.
>
> Sorry I was unclear.  Since the thread was about receptacles, I was
> basing my comments not on the switch series, but on their plug-in
> Switchlinc "appliance" modules which, my wife assures me, are much
> larger than their X-10 counterparts.  (I just measured one and it's
> substantially larger than its X-10 counterpart in every dimension -
> an inch taller, at least.)  AFAIK, Smarthome's line is conspicuously
> absent a switched in-wall 110VAC receptacle so we have nothing to
> really compare it to except the X-10 device.
>
> An outlet is always going to have a minimum depth based on the length
> of a common three-prong plug.  Now, multiply that by two and a duplex
> wall outlet module *has* to consume more space than a comparable
> switch module right on the drawing board (or CAD/CAM screen for all
> you young whippersnappers!)
>
> A duplex outlet almost certainly has to consume more cubic inches in
> a box than a switch will.  You can shrink a switch in PLC devices to
> miniature size because it's not directly switching the load, it's
> triggering a larger current switching device like a triac or a relay.
> But you can't shrink the number of cubic inches lost to outlet
> sockets unless you make them external to the outlet.  Hence the
> appliance module.  Just put two X-10 appliance modules head-to-head
> and you'll see.  Then compare two SwitchLinc appliance modules
> head-to-head they take up the volume that *three* X-10 appliance
> modules could fit in.
>
> I think X-10 "in-the-wall" outlets (only 1 outlet switched, BTW,
> probably to reduce size demands) have a high failure rate because
> they are packed too tight and the components suffer from heat damage.
> I would have to run temperature tests to be sure, but the plastic
> cams in the failed ones I've seen have become brittle from the heat
> and break and tend to look like the brown spot that appears above the
> transformer in their minicontrollers.
>
> It wouldn't surprise me if SmartHome *does* have a duplex outlet in
> beta, but that the failure rate is too high to release it without a
> redesign. I've seen some pretty impressive internal sparking from
> X-10 appliance modules switching loads close to capacity.  I'll bet
> that back-EMF and all sorts of other issues involving relay switching
> of large inductive AC loads just *plagues* appliance module
> designers.  Dimmers are typically rated for much smaller and
> "friendlier" loads.  IIRC, X-10's max switch rating is 500W but their
> appliance modules are rated for 1500W.  That makes comparing light
> dimming switches to outlets just a little unequal.  Which gets me
> back to what I said in the first place:
>
>> The SmartHome devices have always struck me as a little too big to
>> cram into an outlet box successfully.
>
> I'll rephrase my original comment "the SmartHome appliance modules
> have always struck me as a little too big to successfully create a
> duplex outlet in-wall receptacle from their existing design."
>
> They still do!  :-)
>
> --
> Bobby G.
>
> "BruceR" <br@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:Et9Ef.6085$Ou1.627@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> All the Insteon, ICON and Switchlinc plug-in modules use the same
>> housings with various openings as needed.
>>  The Insteon and ICON wall switches are only 1" deep - about the
>> same a standard switch. Both use the same housing with the only
>> difference being the paddle bezel and number of LEDs.  The back is
>> clear so you can see that they also share the same circuitry. It is
>> obvious that these are the same units with different feature sets.
>> Perhaps the ICONs are missing a chip or maybe it's just a firmware
>> difference.
>>
>> From:Robert Green
>> ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>> The SmartHome devices have always struck me as a little too big to
>> cram into an outlet box successfully.
>>> --
>>> Bobby G.
>>>
>>> "Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:43e0abc4.30544984@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Does the ICON use Switchlinc plastics?
>>>>
>>>> Another factor may be that the volume of X-10 business that
>>>> SmartHome has done historically gives them reliable projections of
>>>> market demand for a specific device. If the projected demand is low
>>>> and it requires new plastics it's likely to have a low priority.
>>>>
>>>> "BruceR" <br@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have no inside info so I don't really know when or even if they
>>>>> will offer them but I can't see any reason that they couldn't if
>>>>> they thought there was a market for them.  As for WHY they don't
>>>>> have them now, if you look at the Insteon products released to
>>>>> date, you'll notice that they are using all the same housings and
>>>>> plastics as for their X10 Switchlinc products. Since they never
>>>>> had a Switchlinc outlet they will have to do the plastics for that
>>>>> which takes some time and money. Probably just not at the top of
>>>>> the list yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> From:Fabrizio Santini
>>>>> biziosan@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>> BruceR wrote:
>>>>>>> Not yet
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:Fabrizio Santini
>>>>>>> biziosan@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was wondering if there is any Insteon enabled wall receptacle
>>>>>>>> out there. Something similar to the ones available for X10.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you think they are going to be available soon? What's the
>>>>>> problem of building Insteon enabled receptacles?