Re: Church told to hang own fire panel

[Frank Olson <Use-the-email-links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Robert L Bass wrote:
>> I was part owner of a Piper Cherokee
>> about 20 years ago...
>
> Suuure, you were.
>
>>> Well, as usual you're wrong.  I've visited a
>>> number of my DIY clients' sites over the years.
>>> I actually have quite a few local customers
>>> who have installed their own security, fire and
>>> CCTV systems.  The surprising thing for me
>>> in this business is the number of companies
>>> that have chosen to buy access control and
>>> commercial fire alarm systems and use their
>>> own employees to install them.
>> I don't find that suprising at all, businesses
>> think they'll save a few bucks...
>
> More like thousands of dollars.  A while back
> I sold a system -- three systems really -- to
> a condomimium complex.  They had 3
> structures to protect.  The lowest bidder wanted
> upwards of $100,000 for the whole project.
>
> They bought the hardware from me for less than
> $30,000.  Their electrician installed it for another
> $25K or so.  ADT wanted over $140,000 plus
> a ridiculous monthly fee for inspections and
> monitoring.  They hired a local alarm company to
> handle monitoring, maintenance and testing.
> Compared to ADT they saved a mere $95,000
> up front plus about 3/4 of the annual fees.

Yes, yes...  we've heard it all before.



> Who are you trying to convince?

No one here.


> Only the
> hard-heads with no clue believe that sort of
> blather.

Uh-huh...


> Anyone with a modicum of tool skills
> and a little patience can do this stuff.

Y'know...  I've never actually met a "DIYer" that had either the proper
tools (or the "modicum of skills" necessary to utilize them when he
found out what he needed), and I've been called in to install/service a
number of jobs where the DIYer simply ran out of patience"...


> Licensed
> electricians can and often do install far more
> advanced fire alarms than many low voltage
> techs ever tackle.

That's because, in most jurisdictions, "licensed electricians" are
*mandated* to install fire alarm.  There's a lot of skill required to
install conduit, read and understand a set of specifications and plans.
  Then there's the specific code issues that most DIYer's wouldn't even
have a clue about...  On most jobs involving the higher end systems (I'm
not talking a FireShield panel), the electrical contractor will often
request a factory trained technician complete the terminations and
programming.


> That's what you said when I told you my
> company was developing software for a new
> series of fire alarms.

"Your" company....  <snerk>


> You were so sure that
> I couldn't do it... until I put M Leuck, J
> Stevens and RL Bass in the help system that
> ships with the software.  :^)

Yet when I speak with the techs at Edwards (now GE Security) not a
single one uses "your company's" software to program a Fireshield panel.
  They all (to a man) program the panel manually.  I mean, really,
Bobby...  You're crowing about a piece of crap "help system" you
downloaded from the Internet and then captured a few screen shots for...
  How much "intelligence" does that take??  It sure ain't "Rocket Science".


>
> Several of your pals used to predict how my
> business was about to (1) fall apart; (2) get
> closed by the state; (3) be shut down by my
> suppliers; etc.  I'm still here.


To quote another frequent poster:  "Tick tock, tick tock"...  :-)



>
> Feel free to pretend that no one but a paid
> alarm installer can wire up these simple
> systems.

Where has he (or anyone else here) said that??


> FWIW, I've spent more years
> installing and servicing alarms than you've
> been in the business.

Uh-huh... suuure you have...


> Alarm work  isn't just
> easy to do.

???


> It's easy to teach, too.  I do it
> all the time.  My customers prove you're
> wrong every day.

And the "list" of your *dissatisfied customers* grows "every day" too...