RE: Anyone using much Z-wave?

[Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

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Cheers for the thoughts Ant.



>From my POV, I'm not honestly that bothered about how open or
proprietary
the protocol is, but I'm much more concerned that it's an investment that's
not going to be wasted on a system that disappears from the market because
a
single company goes out of business. and from what I can tell, z-wave
devices are manufactured, marketed and supported by *dozens* of different
vendors who all sign up to the z-wave compatibility programme, so there
would seem little likelihood of z-wave disappearing in a puff of
bankruptcy.. It's a protocol, not a product, so no one company can exert
undue influence on its availability or level of support.



Many of the other HA systems are equally closed & proprietary too.
including
some of the candidates I mentioned earlier; Clipsal CBUS has traditionally
been very secretive (a little bit less so now I believe) and the same can
be
said of SONOS, but that doesn't stop me using, and very much liking their
products, because they do the other thing that I am much more concerned
about. that is, they just WORK, all the time, every time, with rock solid
dependability. That is so far removed from the experience with X10;
pressing
an X10 button is often a complete lottery whether the signal will get
through..



I presume I do *need* a z-wave controller to commission devices?... I don't
need it for anything more than that really. the logic engine will be
comfort, and that is where all the "smarts" will be, so have no
need/plan to
get down & dirty with A.N. Other controller's logic or programming
environment.



Cheers



Paul G.





From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
ant
Sent: 22 September 2013 16:09
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Anyone using much Z-wave?








Hi Paul,



I have some deep misgivings about ZWave. I don't like the proprietary,
closed ecosystem, and I don't like various aspects of the (admittedly now
fairly ancient) protocol. Adding new devices, dead nodes, 'network
healing',
poor support for mobile nodes etc. Having said that, I didn't much like X10
from a technical standpoint (who did!) and that didn't stop us all from
filling our houses with it.



Ideally I'd like controllers and devices that are all using an open
standard
like 6LoWPAN, but meanwhile in the real world, you can *actually buy*
devices and controllers, and that counts for a lot. Which is why my house
has a bunch of ZWave devices in, presided over by a Fibaro HomeControl2.



The issues I mentioned above are irksome,  but they only really bite you
when you're configuring a new system. In day to day use, it's been pretty
bulletproof. I stick with the Fibaro controller because it allows a great
deal of programmability, either using their visual environment, or getting
down and dirty in Lua script, and it integrates well with other systems
over
tcp etc. I've also tried the Zipabox, which is cheaper, but not quite as
flexible. It was similarly reliable though. I hear a lot of folks have had
good results with Vera controllers, but I haven't tried them myself.



The proprietary nature of the protocol still bugs me. I believe ZWave
transceivers are available for Arduino et al, but AFAIK these will let you
build a custom controller, but not an end device (happy to be proven wrong
on that score), so I can't knock up a quick custom device and integrate it
in to the network. For example, to automate my garage door opener (which
has
low voltage open and close inputs) I had to jury-rig a Fibaro shutter
module
and a couple of mains voltage relays. I couldn't find a ZWave
"universal
module" with say a couple of LV ins and outs, but you can often cobble
something together with a bit of lateral thinking.



cheers



ant





On 22 September 2013 15:05, Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all.

I'm shortly going to move house, and thus have an ideal opportunity to
embark on a "HA done properly" exercise... :-) the last 15 years
or so
having been an extended beta test!

All that has passed the beta so far, and which will thus be included in
chez
Gordon Mk 2 is Comfort, CBUS, and Sonos... X10 is definitely out of the
game, but there are potentially some use cases that those 3 systems won't
fully cover, so I may need to bring in at least one more HA technology, and
I'm thinking that may well be Z-wave. (this is based mainly on the premise
that whatever new HA tech is chosen *MUST* integrate with Comfort, which
will be the brains of the whole thing, and there is good integration with
Z-wave via a dedicated UCM).

So it looks like there is a pretty wide range of Z-wave products available,
covering most/all types of devices.

What I think I need is feedback from the HA community that is actively
using
Z-wave devices as to its long term reliability, ease of use, robustness of
performance etc... to help me decide whether or not Z-wave should be
allowed
in to the new house...

So, I put it to you... what are your thoughts, both good or bad, about
Z-wave?

Cheers!

Paul G.




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