Re: Alarm to connect to CBus (excluding Comfort)

["Kevin Hawkins" <yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Raymond Kelly"
<raymondtkelly@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Kevin.
> I understand that the CBus PIRs have a control rather than a security
> characteristic, will do some digging as to what that actually means.

I suspect it's mainly that security PIR's have a internal knock
counter to ensure an alarm isn't signalled until a dual detect, or
more has happened - likely over different segments of the PIR, or even
dual technology sensors like PIR/microwave.

> Is it fair to say that these 'system's that we put together will never
> satisfy insurance required standards - to get discounts?

I'm not in the security business but I'm thinking not, and almost
certainly not if there isn't a panel as such.  Wow.. a lot of not's in
that sentence ! I think there are three main types of discounts - 1)
Where an alarm is fitted even if it's home installed 2) Where a NACOSS
approved (or whatever its called now) install has been made and=20
3)Additionally the alarm is under a service contract with monitoring /
Police alert (Redcare etc).  In my experience these discounts aren't
large though and policed monitoring/maintenance is expensive.=20
Sometimes because of value, risk or past history the alarm is a
mandatory requirement though. There's also likely a clause in the
insurance contract that insists the alarm is set when no-one is within
the property or everyone is upstairs/asleep.=20=20

The 2)and 3) scenario where an alarm is professionally
installed/maintained is very awkward for HA'ers as there is usually no
access to the alarm programming and an inability to signal 'into' the
alarm to say bring on the bells or set the alarm etc.  I've never been
a great fan of any external automated unset ability.

Mine - which is of the 3) type has taken a lot of negotiating with my
installer to achieve a compromise that still meets with their
approval.   In fact I use dual independent alarms - having a second
one covering less important rooms and that I have full engineer /
electrical access too. This provides more HA functionality and is auto
set/unset by the main panel , but not visa versa.    Alarm panels in
general are very low cost so this has been a good solution for me.

Comfort is a very capable system and of course with the C-Bus UCM
it is an attractive option for your integration.  I've always worried
that it is easy to compromise its security, and maybe the regulations,
as it is so programmable, particularly with X10.  But then again
that's your decision/risk to modify its operation in this way.  As a
default configuration it's pretty bulletproof.=20

I suspect most HA'ers aren't interested in a formally 'approved'
installation as it compromises their integration and so it's not a
worry, unless its a mandatory requirement. The discounts just don't
seem very attractive and don't offset the cost - especially in a type
3) situation where annual fees are maybe =A3400ish.

K

> Take your point about separate alarm system - just want to explore
> Cheers
>=20
>=20
> On 02/06/2008, Kevin Hawkins <yahoogroupskh@...> wrote:
> >
> >   I have seen mentioned a few times that the C-Bus PIR's are not
of a
> > security design/characteristic . I think this probably means that
they
> > don't have approriate sensitivity, immunity or trigger
characteristics.
> > Regardless , if you really do mean that you 'dont want another
box' you
> > could use PIR's to simulate an alarm by switching on C-Bus relays
that
> > had an alarm bell attached. You would have to have timer
safeguards on
> > the relay on time to meet the regulations for bell sounding times
and
> > you would have to consider carefully how to physically set and
unset the
> > system. Touchscreen (?). You will need a C-Bus 'smarts'
controller
> > to implement this well - either an approriate touchscreen ,
HomeGate, or
> > the PAC maybe... or of course a xAP/HomeVision gateway ;-) and
then you
> > could use your favourite HA software..
> >
> > I think Schneider also do a product called the 'Minder' but I
don't
> > know much about it - it is a C-Bus linked alarm system IIRC.
Maybe Aus
> > only (regs ?) or a past product... not sure.
> >
> > I really would recommend a standalone alarm with C-Bus relays
outputs
> > linked into zones , almost any alarm panel could do this. Right
tool
> > for the job .I know you said no more boxes but it seems better,
easier
> > and cheaper- keypad implementation for example plus the ability
to use
> > standard PIR's if the C-Bus ones prove inappropriate and tamper
> > protection. There are many alarm panels with a range of features
of
> > course.. depending on how integrated you would like it to be. I
> > personally use a Microtech Galaxy alarm panel which I'm very
pleased
> > with. It's integration with C-Bus is via xAP over Ethernet /
serial and
> > some independent relay input/outputs too.
> >
> > K
> >
> > I would t Raymond Kelly wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a CBus system inc the CBus PIRs and I wish to have an
alarm
> > system.
> > > Much as I like the system Comfort system I want to try to
resist yet
> > > another
> > > hardware box.
> > > Just wondered what others have used on their CBus.
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >=20
> >
>=20
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



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