Re: Re: Zoned Heating Control

[Laurence Mason <laurence@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Karam,

Hmmm, interesting. I must admit I'm not keen on two port valves - from=20
my experience of 3 port they are prone to failing and not particularly=20
cheap! I prefer the idea of either radiator actuators for TRVs or using=20
a manifold structure.

I've obviously got to go and spend some time looking at your web site -=20
too much data :-)

Laurence

k2kyhu wrote:
> Laurence,
>
> Well though you say you don't want other automation functions, you=20
> might still want to consider the IDRATEK system as this is pretty=20
> sophisticated in terms of its climate control capability and will
not=20
> cost an arm and a leg even if you just use it for heating control=20
> alone.=20
>
> You can do the zoning either using radiator actuators (we supply=20
> Sauter 24V variants at ~ =A335, but any other types can also be
used)=20
> or using two port valves or a manifold structure if pipework is=20
> centralised.
>
> To control the room temperatures independently you need a
temperature=20
> sensor per room for feedback and possibly one overall for
feedforward=20
> (eg. outside sensor), and you need some sort of control algorithm
to=20
> integrate all this and provide the user interface. In the IDRATEK=20
> system a very comprehensive control structure is implemented in=20
> software - the reason is the level of capability it allows. For=20
> example each room (or zone) has its own independent controller with
2=20
> sets each of 24hour/7day resolution cooling/heating setpoint=20
> profiles. 2 sets because one is used for when room is occupied and=20
> the other when not, plus there is also a longer term absence=20
> fallback. The control agorithms can also allow you to use=20
> measurements from multiple sensors (eg. averaging), and adjust for=20
> external conditions. There are also provisions for details such as=20
> controlled load dumping (what to do when all zones are suddenly
asked=20
> to shut). For the more intrepid user there are also fuzzy logic and=20
> linear parametric control add-ons.
>
> Web/telephone access, data logging, and many other features are
also=20
> provided.
>
> Karam
>
> www.idratek.com
>
>
>
> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, Laurence Mason <laurence@...> wrote:
>=20=20=20
>> We are building a large well insulated farm house and I would
like=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> to=20
>=20=20=20
>> have a practical system for zoning the heating. My dream system=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> would be:
>=20=20=20
>> Separate zone for each room - we could consider ~20 zones
>> Individual override in each (or some) rooms
>> Central programming panel plus ability to do this via browser=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> interface
>=20=20=20
>> Full seven day programming per zone
>> External temperature compensation
>> Wired system - not wireless - Radio amateur and do not want=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> interference=20
>=20=20=20
>> either way
>> Unobtrusive valves as we will be fitting column radiators and
want=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> to=20
>=20=20=20
>> achieve a look in keeping with them
>> One or two areas of underfloor heating
>> Learns thermal response of room ( we will have log burners in
three=20
>> rooms so not sure how this would affect the learning - and an
aga=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> in the=20
>=20=20=20
>> kitchen)
>>
>> Now, we went to the self build / automation show the other
week,=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> which=20
>=20=20=20
>> was very interesting - it is some years since we last went.
Still=20
>> waiting for some of the suppliers to sent us information - I
guess=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> they=20
>=20=20=20
>> must have a lot to catch up on.
>>
>> Talking to the automation people it appears there are a range
of=20
>> solutions, some of which are very expensive - =A320K buys me a lot
of=20
>> heating oil!
>>
>> It would appear that the TRV body with the wired remote control=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> head is=20
>=20=20=20
>> an economic way to control the flow of water in each of the zones
-=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> we=20
>=20=20=20
>> could even hide them in a cupboard or bathroom so they are not
seen=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> in=20
>=20=20=20
>> the main living rooms. It appears the major cost is in the=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> controller or=20
>=20=20=20
>> are we missing something? In general we are not looking at=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> automating=20
>=20=20=20
>> the lights or sound so don't want to pay for a system to only
use=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> 10% of=20
>=20=20=20
>> it's power to control the heating - perhaps that is why some of=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> them=20
>=20=20=20
>> appear so expensive? We will want a monitored alarm system so=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> perhaps=20
>=20=20=20
>> that would help to offset the cost? We would cover the wiring
and=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> plumbing.
>=20=20=20
>> So any suggestions on a sensible way forward or do I just fit=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> normal=20
>=20=20=20
>> TRVs in every room and spend a little more on oil each year?
The=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> house=20
>=20=20=20
>> is well insulated but it does seem wasteful to heat the spare
room,=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
> for=20
>=20=20=20
>> example, to a normal temperature profile when we have no guests!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Laurence
>>
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>
>=20=20=20



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]