Re: Re: xAP and UPNP

[Chris Hunter <cjhunter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

'still can't get my mind round this xAP & xPL stuff ... I get the
idea ,
of course, but not the implementation - ie: how it's used & got working
...

maybe it's just me !

Chris


Kevin Hawkins wrote:

>--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Jonathan Shaw" <semi.jon@...>
wrote:
>
>
>>I have been reading about upnp an xAP and I understand that upnp is
>>pure TCP/IP and quite heavy weight whereas xAP is light weight and
>>therefore suited to small as well as heavy duty devices.
>>
>>
>
>That's 'sort of' true.  uPNP is very thorough and complete and as you
>say uses TCP as well as many IP based protocols on top of that (XML
>http etc). The fact that it uses TCP adds a little overhead above xAPs
>UDP but it is really the protocol itself that adds the complexity. TCP
>creates peer to peer connections cf xAP's one to many. Think of uPNP
>as xAP on steroids if you like. It has same major inddustry
>heavyweights behind it but it is very complex,still only partly
>complete and manufacturer differences in implementation are already
>causing incompatability and deliberate commercial (not cross vendor)
>interaction issues. The complexity of the protocol makes it
>inaccessible to most enthusuiast type programmers but it is very
capable.
>
>
>
>>Is my reading of this page right?http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?
>>showtopic=1596
>>
>>"A native C-Bus interface under xAP control is available for
>>purchase."
>>
>>
>
>Yes - there is a xAP embedded controller for C-Bus ..
>
>
>
>>and
>>"To my knowledge there are two commercial hardware products
with
>>native xAP or xPL support. One is IP-based audio player SlimP3 from
>>Slim Devices.
>>
>>
>
>This hardware is actually a mix of a hardware player and a software
>server solution. Both xPL and xAP conduits are available for
>SlimServer, both are software products. The xPL conduit is included
>within the SlimServer open source builds and the xAP one a separate
>application that connects via the SlimServer command interface (CLI)
>using a TCP socket connection.
>
> The other is an IP-based general purpose IO called
>
>
>>NetioM from Phaedrus Limited"
>>
>>
>
>Yes - this a multifunction I/O device - 16 inputs, 16 outputs, 4 A/D
>inputs and a serial port along with counters and latches. It has xAP
>inbuilt. It's been shipping around a year now and great for HA.
>
>
>
>>So a SlimP3 could control c-bus connected devices via xAP?? or visa
>>versa.  At <Time> switch on music and lights.
>>
>>
>
>With the help of a controller ..... Something that takes the various
>xAP devices and marshalls them into co-operation. There are a couple
>of 'free' applications that do this 'xAP Desktop' and 'xAP FloorPlan'
>both of which create visual front ends as well as allowing the
>scripting control. xAP Destop works with 'widgets' that float over a
>Windows Desktop and xAP FloorPlan works via a web interface - but
>includes a realtime response interface using AJAX.   There are also
>some commerical applications ranging from free to fairly costly that
>have either inbuilt xAP support or a xAP plugin available.
>MisterHouse, Girder, XLobby , and maybe Charmed Quark are all popular
>choices. MainLobby can interface to xAP via HomeSeer. There are more
>on the way...
>
>At the high end of control processor you can also use Crestron and AMX
>control processors with xAP should you have some programming skills.
>The xAP BSC schema dovetails nicely with the internal state model
>these two use and interacts over Ethernet.
>
>
>
>
>>Seems pretty powerful
>>I notice Comfort and Idranet also support xAP so could these
>>integration devices control an xAP device??
>>
>>
>
>I am not familiar with IdraNet's support - could this perhaps be xPL
>they  support ? There is a xAP application to link with Comfort.   xPL
>and xAP can be interlinked using either xPL HAL or xAP FloorPlan.
>
>
>
>>There was a thread about xAP upnp bridgin about a year ago - it
>>wasn't conclusive, is there any such bridge now?  Given that
Windows
>>XP supports upnp, does that mean if the PC also runs and xAP
>>interface the bridge is formed?
>>
>>
>
>Bridging xAP and uPNP is feasible although there is little benefit
>currently.  A uPNP audio bridge might have benefits but a lot of
>'uPNP' players are closed to the full uPNP schema (eg Sonos).
>Unfortunately there are lots of commercial issues that seem to
>conspire against the 'u' in uPNP (universal).  There are no 'simple
>device' uPNP controllers I'm a ware of - I/O controllers etc.
>
>
>
>>Finally what consumer devices actually support either upnp or xAP?
>>Both seem thin on the ground.
>>
>>
>
>uPNP is in early days - it has huge resource and funds behind it but
>it has a way to go yet both technically, commercially , in diversity
>and in adoption. I do believe it will get there though. xAP is very
>much a tool that is accesible to people now to achieve results today.
>But it needs you to be a bit of an 'enthusiast' to use it still.
>There are the above software and hardware applications that support
>xAP and there are two more commercial software applications, and
>another hardware one about to be released.
>
> There are many xAP (and xPL) applications to connect various devices
>like Caller ID, X10, hardware I/O, temp and distance sensors, RGB
>lighting, News and Weather feeds, Skype, Call logging, mp3 players,
>network device monitoring, asterisk, lighting systems, Tivo and aother
>OSD (XBMC/WindowsMCE) etc . Both sites have a raft of development
>tools available too,  and the interaction of these devcies is
>controllable both with free and commerial market leading HA
>applications. Enthusiasts are what builds this supported list though
>as neither xAP nor xPL have commercial interests.  They just want to
>offer a solution to enable it to all work together.
>
> Have a rummage around the xAP and xPL sites for more info...
>
>www.xapautomation.org
>www.xplproject.org.uk
>www.mi4.biz
>
>
>  HTH Kevin
>
>
>
>>Thanks
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>
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