Re: What Infrastruture? - conclusions, almost

["Paul Gale" <groups@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks Kevin,

Yes - had thought of the local ethernet switch - have one somewhere,
so must hunt it out....

Curtains are on other side of the room.

RS232 - good idea. Just need to make up some cables to do this :)

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, Kevin Hawkins <lists@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>     Yes - I've found the same - good advice.  Retrofitting is no
fun ,
> particularly to light switches.
>
>     Just reading through your uses though you may be able to get
some
> back in your AV room if you really are in need of some more..
Zoned
> audio/video eats CAT5 if you're using balanced distribution via
KAT5 or
> similar - although I think you intend distributing audio at
speaker level.
>
>     3 x Ethernet - could this be dropped to one with a local
hub/switch ?
>     The RS232/curtain closure - are these on CAT5 and could you
share
> some cables by using spare pairs. RS232 single directional often
uses as
> little as one pair and bi-directional only 3 wires. If you need
> handshaking this will go up to maybe 5 wires.
>     Also maybe you could use the Lantronix MSS100's on your
network for
> these RS232 devices ?- (still got a load of these available if
anyone's
> wanting one..)
>     The YUV KAT5 might accommodate the digital audio channel too
maybe ?
>
>   K
>
>
> Paul Gale wrote:
> >
> > Just had a quick scan - don't underestimate the amount of Cat5
runs
> > you might need - I flood wired my house and have AT LEAST 10
runs to
> > each room and more in bigger rooms/places like AV Rooms etc.
Even then
> > I've run out in some places ie. AV Room has the following:
> >
> > 3 x Ethernet
> > 1 x Curtain closure control
> > 1 x Whole house music keypad
> > 3 x RS232 serial for AV component control
> > 1 x YUV via Kat5
> > 2 x Composite + stereo audio via Kat5
> > 1 x digital audio via Kat5
> >
> > We decided to use this room as the AV Room after the house had
already
> > been wired - run enough so you can change your mind later and
> > re-purpose rooms - it's cheap to do while your doing it.
> >
> > I'd also run several cables next to all light switches or places
where
> > you may want wall controllers in the future - i.e. CBus, touch
panel
> > screens etc.
> >
> > You'll find that one of the recurring themes over the years on
this
> > group is that people always run out of Cat5 at some point in the
> > future after having flood wired a house! There's just so much
you can
> > do with Cat5 :)
> >
> > Paul.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%
40yahoogroups.com>] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > Jonathan Shaw
> > > Sent: 03 September 2006 09:14
> > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [ukha_d] Re: What Infrastruture? - conclusions,
almost
> > >
> > > Thanks for the responses to my question. I have collated
what
I have
> > > learned below - it could become an FAQ with a bit more work
(I've
> > > indicated my further questions) if UKHA_D does such things.
> > > Thanks
> > > Jon
> > >
> > > Flexible Smart Home Infrastructure - a first stab
> > > =================================================
> > > Judging by the "newbie" questions on home
automation and
> > > entertainment internet newsgroups and forums the first time
many
> > > people (including me) begin thinking about enabling a smart
home is
> > > when they are about to undertake a major project. The area
is
vast
> > > and there are many competing smart home products covering
> > > entertainment, security and automation each with their own
> > > communication standards and wiring requirements. This means
that
> > > there is no common infrastructure that offers complete
flexibility
> > > between various systems. This note is an attempt to define a
cable
> > > infrastructure that offers a degree of flexibility and
choice
of end
> > > system. It is very much work in progress, send me your
comments and
> > > I will update over time.
> > >
> > > Main Systems
> > > ++++++++++++
> > > Lighting
> > > --------
> > > Star wire in 1.0mm , 1 cable run per light group/channel.
Run
1 x 3
> > > core and earth switch cable from ceiling rose to switch
plate
this
> > > will provide a neutral for the dimmers that need it. Also
run
a mains-
> > > rated CAT5e cable.
> > > Use a star feed also for 5A sockets for floor / table lights
> > > Pros:
> > > Allows use of following switching and dimming options:
conventional,
> > > C-bus, Rako, Idratek, X-10
> > > Cons:
> > > Will require additional consumer unit space, see Locations,
below
> > > Questions:
> > > Can low energy halogen-style lights be dimmed?
> > >
> > > Appliances
> > > ----------
> > > Star wire 1 socket per room for curtain closers or other
purpose
> > > (e.g. Christmas lights) on 2.5mm
> > > In rooms with TV's star wire AV equipment (not used for
recording)
> > > and screens / projectors to reduce standby consumption.
> > > Remaining sockets on conventional 2.5mm.
> > > Future appliance switching could use plug in device (X-10,
Zwave,
> > > Zigbee) or spur from the ring (Idratek, C-bus).
> > > Pros
> > > Covers primary appliance switching and allows future
development.
> > > Plug-in modules allow great flexibility.
> > > Cons
> > > Control of spurs could be tricky. If need a spur, it will
probably
> > > require provision of another socket box or two (&
subsequent
> > > decoration)
> > > Questions:
> > > Is there a limit on spurs from ring?
> > > Do all spurs have to be fused?
> > > If using a fused spur then would need someway of controlling
it -
> > > could this be achieved with daisy chained mains-rated CAT5e?
> > >
> > > Data & Phone:
> > > -------------
> > > 2xCat5e to each room, more to large rooms so termination on
each side
> > > of room. These run back to a patch panel so can be used for
variety
> > > of purposes, even sensors, I/O etc but would result in
trailing lead.
> > >
> > > TV, Radio
> > > ----------
> > >
> > > 1xCT100 or WR100 to each room from TV amp/splitter location
(e.g.
> > > Loftbox or similar) Plus additional to sites of Video feed
equipment
> > > Use data network for streamed video from e.g. PVR
> > > If using HDMI plan route from Video equipment to screen to
ensure
> > > cable length <10m
> > >
> > > Audio
> > > -----
> > > Run speaker cable (number of strands to suit personal
preference)
> > > from locations of audio equipment to speaker locations in
multiple
> > > rooms. Also feed cable from (a wall plate possibly in) each
room to
> > > speakers in the same room.
> > > Allows use of multi room amplifier such as Living control,
Musica
> > > when combined with data cable.
> > > Note in-ceiling speakers can cause significant disturbance
in
rooms
> > > above them.
> > > Pro
> > > Choice of flash multi-room audio or just an amplifier per
room
> > > Con
> > > Phono-level distribution not catered for directly but could
use a
> > > data cable.
> > > Have to make an early choice about speaker location (in
ceiling, wall
> > > mounted floor standing) if want to avoid trailing cables.
> > >
> > > IR
> > > --
> > > Coax used for TV distribution can be used to distribute IR
for
TV
> > > control - no further cables needed. Some systems also have
IR
> > > control but these tend use a CAT5 cable bus used for other
devices
> > > that contain an IR receiver.
> > >
> > > Question:
> > > Do C-bus, Rako, Comfort, Idratek etc IR devices transmit as
well as
> > > receive?
> > >
> > >
> > > Other Cat5e
> > > +++++++++++
> > > Sensors:
> > > --------
> > > General Question
> > > Do these need to be star-wired back to Node-0 / patch panel
or
are
> > > they daisy chained or does it depend?
> > > Door bell
> > > Link this to HA system. To allow HA system to trigger events
on door
> > > bell.
> > >
> > > Security / Fire / Presence
> > > --------------------------
> > > PIRs, magnetic reed switches (windows, doors), glass break
etc
> > > Most generic device is a PIR, but choice of PIR needs to
account for:
> > > * Pets (do you want to trigger their presence)?
> > > * Heat sources such as radiators, windows
> > > Door mounted magnetic reed switches or beam breaks can be
used
to
> > > supplement this.
> > > PIR location is critical.
> > > Use cat5e cabling for sensors
> > > Pro
> > > Do not need to buy another type of cable, there are 4 pairs
in
a
> > > single cable so adequate for proper security-alarm type PIR.
Offers
> > > some future flexibility e.g. replace PIR with IP camera.
> > > Con
> > > Cat5 slightly more expensive than 6 core alarm cable
> > >
> > > Questions
> > > For security I assume these need to be fed back to an alarm
panel?
> > > How are alarm panels connected to HA server? RS232? Is there
a
cable
> > > length limit for RS232?
> > > Comfort is sold as an alarm panel but it allows remote
disarming, so
> > > do not think it can be NACOSS approved?
> > >
> > > Temperature / Heating
> > > ---------------------
> > > Drop cat5 cable to back of heating controller location and
heating
> > > sensors so these can be picked up by HA system.
> > >
> > > CCTV
> > > ----
> > > Could use CAT5 or wireless for IP cameras.
> > > Consider
> > > * Protection of location, from elements, from oiks
> > > * Focal length (how far will subject be from camera)
> > > * Lighting (will subject be back lit, in low light, at
night)
> > >
> > > Question:
> > > How to connect basic cameras? 75 Ohm TV cable e.g. ct-100??
> > >
> > >
> > > I/O devices
> > > -----------
> > > Consider locations of
> > > * Keypads for multi room audio systems
> > > * Touch panels
> > > * Alarm key pad (Comfort) / Multi function devices (Idratek)
> > >
> > > If these will be adjacent to light switch plate then could
run
> > > multiple Cat5e down to the switch plate and coil surplus for
later
> > > use. If conduit or similar used surplus could be in floor
void
to be
> > > pulled through later.
> > >
> > > Locations
> > > +++++++++
> > > All data cables need to be returned to a single point
(node-0).
> > > Computers connected to the network can be elsewhere in the
home if
> > > not enough space in Node-0.
> > > Node-0 could be in a loft but care needed:
> > > * Lofts can be filthy, damp places, not ideal for good
> > > connections
> > > * Lofts can be very hot in summer and cold in winter - heat
> > > certainly not ideal for computer equipment, fan could be
required,
> > > ensure vent does not allow ingress of damp.
> > > Under stairs cupboard is a popular location, consider:
> > > * Cable route to upper floors (may not be able to conceal
> > > within the stairs depending on design)
> > > * Ventilation if it will be the home of computer equipment
> > > * Fire protection (if home of computer equipment) - most
houses
> > > only have one staircase, if there is a problem with your
equipment
> > > your fire-escape could be the seat of the fire. Fit a smoke
/
heat
> > > alarm within the cupboard.
> > >
> > > A Master and secondary consumer units can be used to
accommodate Star-
> > > wired controllers based on DIN modules. The secondary
consumer
units
> > > can be distributed to convenient locations e.g. 1 per floor,
this
> > > will reduce cable required as well as easing wall-congestion
in one
> > > location.
> > > Multiple consumer units can be used
> > > Question:
> > > Can Din-rail devices be controlled remotely from Node-0 over
> > > structured wiring?
> > > How are CAT5 base Bus systems interconnected? I.e. is there
a
maximum
> > > number of devices on each leg of the bus, how are bus-legs
connected
> > > together? Should all these sensor cables be run back to the
same
> > > point as the data/phone/coax?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>