RE: Re: Show report

["Neil Ball" <neilball@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Paul

=20

It=92s good to know you stopped by and hope Dave or Mervyn (it would have
b=
een
one or the other who spoke with you) did not get too carried away!!!

=20

You are right about not needing many of the additional aspects of
Hometroni=
c
as your lighting is far more sophisticated than the Honeywell offering. The
only thing Hometronic could offer just now (without going to the fully
zone=
d
system using the radiator TRV actuators) would be simple single zone
heatin=
g
control with volt-free interfaces to Comfort/CBus to allow one or the other
to provide the remote access. This would provide the link to activate the
=93Coming Home=94 Lifestyle and switch on the heating before you get there.
Don=92t overlook the setback issue =96 it=92s mainly used for
frost/condens=
ation
protection when you are away from the house so can be vital if you are away
for more than a day or two during very cold weather. In this case the
setback temperature is around 10 degrees. I=92ve had a customer in
Invernes=
s
install a fully zoned system and uses a simple volt free interface module
t=
o
connect to Homevision so he can use the HV web browser as his remote access
and use it to switch Hometronic into =93away=94 mode automatically when the
alarm system is fully set. He then uses the web interface to select a
numbe=
r
of different modes before he gets home.

=20

So you can use the system to provide single zone control using a relay
module and wireless room sensor in combination with the Hometronic Manager
and have remote access from other systems using the Hometronic Input module
to receive volt-free signals. It=92s technically possible but the costs
probably don=92t stack up. Hardware for such a setup would cost =A3750
plus=
VAT
at full retail, plus commissioning. That said there is no reason why you
should not ask for a discount or even the possibility of a potential bulk
buy ;-) Then again it would be quite easy to set up most of this
functionality via Comfort (as Gareth was looking to do) or CBus at a
fraction of this cost and in a way that is easy to put back to normal when
you move.

=20

The Hometronic installation is a doddle. Any competent person could install
and wire the system, it=92s mainly wireless after all. If you use the
radia=
tor
motorised TRV actuators for zoning then there is no need for any additional
plumbing providing your radiators already have suitable valves. Accessing
the boiler terminals in most cases does not require the boiler casing to be
removed, there is usually a hidden screw or two that then drops a panel at
the front of the boiler. We often modify the simple wiring drawings to show
the precise terminals to wire to as long as we can find the info on the web
or from the boiler manufacturer. Commissioning is not difficult, mainly
pus=
h
button binding of modules. But as the system has so many different
applications the combination of button pushing, configuration of the
limite=
d
number of parameters etc means it is quite easy to make the same hardware
d=
o
very different things. We could try and produce a training course to cover
all of these applications but we would probably end up needing to charge
more for the training than it would cost for the commissioning of most
systems. That=92s why we offer to let customers be as active in the
commissioning as they wish to be. It becomes a sort of unofficial training
course based on your own installation for those that want it and means that
any future system expansion does not require us to visit/charge again as
yo=
u
would have a good idea of what needs to be done and we can easily support
the process remotely by phone or email.

=20

Glad you found the kit interesting and I=92ll keep my fingers crossed that
=
the
Olympic effect has the results you are looking for :-)

=20

Regards

=20

Neil B.

=20

_____=20=20

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Paul Gordon
Sent: 06 March 2006 15:33
To: UKHA_D Group
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Show report

=20

Hi Neil.

I did try to say hello on Saturday, but you were busy every time I
looked..=
.
- I did however, have a very productive chat with your colleague.

I'm quite impressed with the Hometronic system, it appears very
complete...=
.
- actually "too complete" for my needs (if there is such a
thing!)... I'm a=
t
the point where I'm seriously tempted to explore it further, but I also
hav=
e
this nagging feeling that it is "overkill" for my very modest
needs... (I
suppose that is probably the HA equivalent of "heresy"??)

e.g.=20

I already have a Comfort system, and I already have CBUS in for lighting. -
very shortly I will have the two of those linked up.. I also have a
Homesee=
r
PC which is fully conversant with Comfort. I therefore have no need of
Hometronic's own telephone or web interfaces, since I already have both of
those sorted.. (Comfort provides telephone access, Homeseer provides web).
=
I
also have no need of any of Hometronics' other lighting or HA functionality
since that's all pretty much taken care of too... In fact, the only piece
that I _do_ need is bringing the existing central heating system under the
control my existing HA system. - And even there, I suspect that Hometronic
is "too good" for what I need it to do... - I have a fairly
modest 3-bed
Victorian semi, - not very well insulated internally (big gaps at the
botto=
m
of doors etc), so heat tends to percolate around our house rather than
staying in a particular room... so it's "almost" invalid to
consider our
house as having very many separate zones - TBH, "upstairs" and
"downstairs"
are about as far as we discriminate, - although of course at the moment we
don't even have that degree of zone control, since it's a bog-standard
combi-boiler system with radiators, with nothing more than on/off/timed
control over the whole lot. We do have TRV's on almost all the rads as
well=
,
but rarely change any of them except for one in a little-used guest
bedroom... So to be honest, I don't think would make a great deal of use of
the "lifestyle" settings that are available either..

I think all I really *need* (i.e. can justify the expenditure for) is a
simple interface between the CH and Comfort... I suspect this needs to be
little more than on / off control over the CH side of the boiler... I want
to be able to have comfort automatically turn the heating off when there's
no-one in the house - I don't bother with any of this set-back nonsense...
=
-
the system doesn't take very long to warm the place up from cold, so when
w=
e
aren't there, we turn it off... I also want to be able to dial and/or
web-browse in from outside and turn the heating on in advance (we came home
to a cold house on Sunday when we got back from the show) - It would have
been nice to phone ahead from the car and turn it on a couple of hours
before we arrived... - but I wouldn't particularly have wanted to have left
it on over Saturday as well... I'd also like to be able to turn the heating
on or off from anywhere in the house, and have feedback available showing
the current CH status - again, with Comfort in control of the boiler, I
could use a CBUS switch to do both of the above...

Lastly, I was a little bit concerned about the "We supply, you fit, we
commission" approach... - I'd prefer to have the whole package taken
care o=
f
in one go... since I'd need to employ both a plumber and a sparky to fit
everything (plumbing is the ONE area I tend to stay well clear of). Also, I
don't currently have an off-board room thermostat connected up to my CH
system, - I rely purely on the TRV's, - so there's no easy interface point
to the boiler without taking the covers off it and getting at the control
board.. - I know there is an interface on there somewhere for a t-stat, but
I don't have the circuit diagrams for the boiler mainboard, so this piece
o=
f
work would also best be performed by someone at least a bit more qualified
than me...

So, it's an impressive system, but I think I've just talked myself out of
trying to squeeze this one past "credit control" ;-)  Will keep
it in mind
for the next house though... - we plan on cashing in on the Olympics in a
few years!

Cheers.

Paul G.



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