Re: Re: Generators - is this a good one?

["John Andrews" <groups@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Andy

As I have a APC UPS (ha!) you have given me a lot to think about.

Cheers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Whitfield" <andywhitfield2002@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Generators - is this a good one?


>
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
> Batteries last 3 to 5 years in APC UPSs and 5 to 8 years in
> Compaq/Powerware UPSs.  Compaq UPSs are made by Powerware.
> Both makes rapid charge their batteries when they are discharged BUT
> APC then continually trickle charge their batteries whereas
> Compaq/Powerware trickle charge then stop charging when the batteries
> are fully charged.
> Cycling the batteries has little effect unless the UPS/batteries have
> been left in storage for some time.
>
> RE: using UPSs with generators.  Most important point here is that
> there are "different" types of UPS technologies!!
> True online double conversion UPS technology can cope with any
> genny.  You could supply this type of UPS with a distorted square
> wave with noise, harmonics and at 180Vac and it would still supply a
> perfect clean 230V AC sine-wave output.  They convert the AC supply
> to DC and then construct the AC output from scratch.  Hence they cost
> more than standard UPSs.
> Common UPSs such as APC Smart UPSs or Compaq R3000h UPSs need a
> reasonably good AC sine wave supply so any genny needs a quality
> output to work with these.
>
> Nigel, What model of UPS have you got?  Is it Compaq R3000h?
>
> Regards
> Andy Whitfield
>
> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Nigel Giddings" <nigel@c...>
wrote:
>> I would definitely agree that a UPS is your first line of
defence...
>>
>> Computers can suffer from sudden power cuts and no electronics
like
> Brown Outs... Using a 'Long Run' ups has many advantages, they are
> clean, they refuel when the power is restored, and don't make much
> noise... They can also log events to help identify the problem you
> had or even make a claim to your supplier. Batteries are the only
> real issue. I think they talk about 5 - 6 year life in commercial
> applications and this will be dependant on sophistication of UPS,
> some cycle the batteries automatically to prolong life...
>>
>> Using UPSs with Gensets can be tricky... UPSs check the quality of
> the mains supply and may not 'accept' generator power. I have heard a
> rule of thumb that you should have a genny with twice the KVA of your
> UPS system using the remaining half to present a clean load. This
> will help the generator produce stable power, UPS and switched Mode
> PSU can produce harmonics which can interfere with the generator
> frequency control.
>>
>> I have 2 Compaq 3KVA UPSs running at 30-50% load, these run quite
> happily with the generator while pulling a total of 10 - 15 Amps from
> the Genset. Increasing the load has no effect either.
>>
>> I personally didn't want to spend money on a Genset for it not to
> start automatically every time, not a good one for WAF... Also being
> automatic it wouldn't mean I had to be at home to bring it into
> service. Sods law states you will be out when it happens and the
> Parents will be house sitting... Explaining how to fire up genny then
> reboot the PCs would be a pain...
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> PS you may want to research low power kettles, not much help with
a
> UPS, as it has a finite amount of stored power, but would mean you
> could boil a kettle with a 5KVA genny with the lights and TV etc.
> on... (A normal kettle could pull as much as 3KVA).
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andy Whitfield [mailto:andywhitfield2002@y...]
>> Sent: 13 January 2005 09:59
>> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Generators - is this a good one?
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> You can use a long runtime UPS for the light stuff (lights, TV,
>> fridge, etc).  Obviously not electric heating, kettle, cooker,
> etc!! I run my own modest business dealing solely in UPSs. Paul
> Robinson, from this group, has recently bought a long runtime
>> UPS from me.
>> See http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/postt200.html
>> Can add extra battery cabinets to this model.
>>
>> I also have even longer runtime models.  Ask me for details.
>>
>> Regards
>> Andy Whitfield
>>
>> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "John Andrews"
<groups@j...> wrote:
>> > Nigel
>> >
>> > Now that is impressive! 45A!
>> >
>> > Cheers for the tip about petrol, I did not know that petrol
had a
>> shelf life
>> > and your comments about flammability - good point the genny
can go
>> in the
>> > shed (about 5 metres from the house).
>> >
>> > I do appreciate about the load while the genny is running, it
is
>> for the HA
>> > stuff, fridge, lighting. I would avoid heavy items like the
cooker
>> etc.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > J
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Nigel Giddings" <nigel@c...>
>> > To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:52 PM
>> > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Generators - is this a good one?
>> > >
>> > > John,
>> > >
>> > > I installed a Genset just before Christmas, well
Christmas eve
> to
>> be
>> > > exact....
>> > >
>> > > I went for an 11KVA unit, I think with 5KVA you will
need to be
>> careful
>> > > what you try to use while the genny is running.
>> > >
>> > > The unit you list is petrol I think, you have to be
careful with
>> petrol,
>> > > its obviously highly flammable, but it will also lose
its punch
>> after 12
>> > > months due to the un-leaded fuel. It will be useless 18
months
>> after it
>> > > has left the pump... Maybe 12 if you are unlucky. A full
tank
>> will give
>> > > you 10 hours, is this really enough for seeing you
through the
>> night?
>> > >
>> > > The unit is electric start so you may be able to set up
a auto-
>> start and
>> > > oil warning system will help to prevent major damage if
> something
>> occurs.
>> > > I have seen these on e-bay for £200+
>> > >
>> > > I went to the other extreme with my unit, also from
e-bay. It
>> cost £3K by
>> > > the time it was installed. It is a 2 cylinder air cooled
diesel
>> with a 45A
>> > > Generator. It has a fully enclosed acoustic hood and a
100 Hour
>> fuel tank.
>> > > It also  came with its own purpose built mains fail
changeover
>> panel which
>> > > means it is on line in less than 5 seconds...
>> > >
>> > > Pictures here
>> > >
>> > > http://photos.corbenic.co.uk/photos/photo_212.html
>> > >
>> > > HTH
>> > >
>> > > Nigel
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: John Andrews [mailto:groups@j...]
>> > > Sent: 12 January 2005 22:39
>> > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> > > Subject: [ukha_d] Generators - is this a good one?
>> > >
>> > > Hi Group
>> > >
>> > > Is the following a good generator?
>> > >
>> > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
>> ViewItem&category=46412&item=4348380265
>> > >
>> > > Basically I want something that will run the whole house
that I
>> can mount
>> > > in
>> > > the loft (venting the exhaust outside).
>> > > The HA kit is on a UPS that will last for about 10 mins
(enough
>> time for
>> > > me
>> > > to flick a switch).
>> > >
>> > > Also is there anything out there that can detect a power
loss,
>> switch on a
>> > > generator and throw a relay? (and back again once the
power is
>> back on)
>>
>
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