Re: Generators - is this a good one?

["Andy Whitfield" <andywhitfield2002@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

John,
The battery life-time for different makes comes from experience.  Far=20
more common for me to change batteries in APC than Compaq/Powerware.=20=20
But APC is by far the more popular make!
I have a number of the Powerware UPSs with extra battery cabinets.=20=20
Also the slightly earlier model.
And APC Matrix long runtime UPSs.
Regards
Andy

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "John Andrews" <groups@j...> wrote:
> Andy
>=20
> As I have a APC UPS (ha!) you have given me a lot to think about.
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Andy Whitfield" <andywhitfield2002@y...>
> To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:50 AM
> Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Generators - is this a good one?
> >
> >
> > Hi Nigel,
> >
> > Batteries last 3 to 5 years in APC UPSs and 5 to 8 years in
> > Compaq/Powerware UPSs.  Compaq UPSs are made by Powerware.
> > Both makes rapid charge their batteries when they are
discharged=20
BUT
> > APC then continually trickle charge their batteries whereas
> > Compaq/Powerware trickle charge then stop charging when the=20
batteries
> > are fully charged.
> > Cycling the batteries has little effect unless the
UPS/batteries=20
have
> > been left in storage for some time.
> >
> > RE: using UPSs with generators.  Most important point here is
that
> > there are "different" types of UPS technologies!!
> > True online double conversion UPS technology can cope with any
> > genny.  You could supply this type of UPS with a distorted square
> > wave with noise, harmonics and at 180Vac and it would still=20
supply a
> > perfect clean 230V AC sine-wave output.  They convert the AC=20
supply
> > to DC and then construct the AC output from scratch.  Hence
they=20
cost
> > more than standard UPSs.
> > Common UPSs such as APC Smart UPSs or Compaq R3000h UPSs need a
> > reasonably good AC sine wave supply so any genny needs a quality
> > output to work with these.
> >
> > Nigel, What model of UPS have you got?  Is it Compaq R3000h?
> >
> > Regards
> > Andy Whitfield
> >
> > --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Nigel Giddings"
<nigel@c...>=20
wrote:
> >> I would definitely agree that a UPS is your first line of=20
defence...
> >>
> >> Computers can suffer from sudden power cuts and no
electronics=20
like
> > Brown Outs... Using a 'Long Run' ups has many advantages, they
are
> > clean, they refuel when the power is restored, and don't make
much
> > noise... They can also log events to help identify the problem
you
> > had or even make a claim to your supplier. Batteries are the only
> > real issue. I think they talk about 5 - 6 year life in commercial
> > applications and this will be dependant on sophistication of UPS,
> > some cycle the batteries automatically to prolong life...
> >>
> >> Using UPSs with Gensets can be tricky... UPSs check the
quality=20
of
> > the mains supply and may not 'accept' generator power. I have=20
heard a
> > rule of thumb that you should have a genny with twice the KVA
of=20
your
> > UPS system using the remaining half to present a clean load. This
> > will help the generator produce stable power, UPS and switched=20
Mode
> > PSU can produce harmonics which can interfere with the generator
> > frequency control.
> >>
> >> I have 2 Compaq 3KVA UPSs running at 30-50% load, these run
quite
> > happily with the generator while pulling a total of 10 - 15
Amps=20
from
> > the Genset. Increasing the load has no effect either.
> >>
> >> I personally didn't want to spend money on a Genset for it
not to
> > start automatically every time, not a good one for WAF... Also=20
being
> > automatic it wouldn't mean I had to be at home to bring it into
> > service. Sods law states you will be out when it happens and the
> > Parents will be house sitting... Explaining how to fire up
genny=20
then
> > reboot the PCs would be a pain...
> >>
> >> Nigel
> >>
> >> PS you may want to research low power kettles, not much
help=20
with a
> > UPS, as it has a finite amount of stored power, but would mean
you
> > could boil a kettle with a 5KVA genny with the lights and TV etc.
> > on... (A normal kettle could pull as much as 3KVA).
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Andy Whitfield [mailto:andywhitfield2002@y...]
> >> Sent: 13 January 2005 09:59
> >> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Generators - is this a good one?
> >>
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> You can use a long runtime UPS for the light stuff (lights,
TV,
> >> fridge, etc).  Obviously not electric heating, kettle,
cooker,
> > etc!! I run my own modest business dealing solely in UPSs. Paul
> > Robinson, from this group, has recently bought a long runtime
> >> UPS from me.
> >> See http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/postt200.html
> >> Can add extra battery cabinets to this model.
> >>
> >> I also have even longer runtime models.  Ask me for details.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Andy Whitfield
> >>
> >> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "John Andrews"
<groups@j...>=20
wrote:
> >> > Nigel
> >> >
> >> > Now that is impressive! 45A!
> >> >
> >> > Cheers for the tip about petrol, I did not know that
petrol=20
had a
> >> shelf life
> >> > and your comments about flammability - good point the
genny=20
can go
> >> in the
> >> > shed (about 5 metres from the house).
> >> >
> >> > I do appreciate about the load while the genny is
running, it=20
is
> >> for the HA
> >> > stuff, fridge, lighting. I would avoid heavy items like
the=20
cooker
> >> etc.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> > J
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Nigel Giddings" <nigel@c...>
> >> > To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:52 PM
> >> > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Generators - is this a good one?
> >> > >
> >> > > John,
> >> > >
> >> > > I installed a Genset just before Christmas, well
Christmas=20
eve
> > to
> >> be
> >> > > exact....
> >> > >
> >> > > I went for an 11KVA unit, I think with 5KVA you
will need to=20
be
> >> careful
> >> > > what you try to use while the genny is running.
> >> > >
> >> > > The unit you list is petrol I think, you have to be
careful=20
with
> >> petrol,
> >> > > its obviously highly flammable, but it will also
lose its=20
punch
> >> after 12
> >> > > months due to the un-leaded fuel. It will be
useless 18=20
months
> >> after it
> >> > > has left the pump... Maybe 12 if you are unlucky. A
full tank
> >> will give
> >> > > you 10 hours, is this really enough for seeing you
through=20
the
> >> night?
> >> > >
> >> > > The unit is electric start so you may be able to
set up a=20
auto-
> >> start and
> >> > > oil warning system will help to prevent major
damage if
> > something
> >> occurs.
> >> > > I have seen these on e-bay for =A3200+
> >> > >
> >> > > I went to the other extreme with my unit, also from
e-bay. It
> >> cost =A33K by
> >> > > the time it was installed. It is a 2 cylinder air
cooled=20
diesel
> >> with a 45A
> >> > > Generator. It has a fully enclosed acoustic hood
and a 100=20
Hour
> >> fuel tank.
> >> > > It also  came with its own purpose built mains
fail=20
changeover
> >> panel which
> >> > > means it is on line in less than 5 seconds...
> >> > >
> >> > > Pictures here
> >> > >
> >> > > http://photos.corbenic.co.uk/photos/photo_212.html
> >> > >
> >> > > HTH
> >> > >
> >> > > Nigel
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: John Andrews [mailto:groups@j...]
> >> > > Sent: 12 January 2005 22:39
> >> > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> >> > > Subject: [ukha_d] Generators - is this a good one?
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Group
> >> > >
> >> > > Is the following a good generator?
> >> > >
> >> > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> >> ViewItem&category=3D46412&item=3D4348380265
> >> > >
> >> > > Basically I want something that will run the whole
house=20
that I
> >> can mount
> >> > > in
> >> > > the loft (venting the exhaust outside).
> >> > > The HA kit is on a UPS that will last for about 10
mins=20
(enough
> >> time for
> >> > > me
> >> > > to flick a switch).
> >> > >
> >> > > Also is there anything out there that can detect a
power=20
loss,
> >> switch on a
> >> > > generator and throw a relay? (and back again once
the power=20
is
> >> back on)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >