Re: Generators - is this a good one?

["Andy Whitfield" <andywhitfield2002@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Nigel,

Batteries last 3 to 5 years in APC UPSs and 5 to 8 years in=20
Compaq/Powerware UPSs.  Compaq UPSs are made by Powerware.
Both makes rapid charge their batteries when they are discharged BUT=20
APC then continually trickle charge their batteries whereas=20
Compaq/Powerware trickle charge then stop charging when the batteries=20
are fully charged.
Cycling the batteries has little effect unless the UPS/batteries have=20
been left in storage for some time.

RE: using UPSs with generators.  Most important point here is that=20
there are "different" types of UPS technologies!!
True online double conversion UPS technology can cope with any=20
genny.  You could supply this type of UPS with a distorted square=20
wave with noise, harmonics and at 180Vac and it would still supply a=20
perfect clean 230V AC sine-wave output.  They convert the AC supply=20
to DC and then construct the AC output from scratch.  Hence they cost=20
more than standard UPSs.
Common UPSs such as APC Smart UPSs or Compaq R3000h UPSs need a=20
reasonably good AC sine wave supply so any genny needs a quality=20
output to work with these.

Nigel, What model of UPS have you got?  Is it Compaq R3000h?

Regards
Andy Whitfield

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Nigel Giddings" <nigel@c...> wrote:
> I would definitely agree that a UPS is your first line of defence...
>=20
> Computers can suffer from sudden power cuts and no electronics like=20
Brown Outs... Using a 'Long Run' ups has many advantages, they are=20
clean, they refuel when the power is restored, and don't make much=20
noise... They can also log events to help identify the problem you=20
had or even make a claim to your supplier. Batteries are the only=20
real issue. I think they talk about 5 - 6 year life in commercial=20
applications and this will be dependant on sophistication of UPS,=20
some cycle the batteries automatically to prolong life...
>=20
> Using UPSs with Gensets can be tricky... UPSs check the quality of=20
the mains supply and may not 'accept' generator power. I have heard a=20
rule of thumb that you should have a genny with twice the KVA of your=20
UPS system using the remaining half to present a clean load. This=20
will help the generator produce stable power, UPS and switched Mode=20
PSU can produce harmonics which can interfere with the generator=20
frequency control.
>=20
> I have 2 Compaq 3KVA UPSs running at 30-50% load, these run quite=20
happily with the generator while pulling a total of 10 - 15 Amps from=20
the Genset. Increasing the load has no effect either.
>=20
> I personally didn't want to spend money on a Genset for it not to=20
start automatically every time, not a good one for WAF... Also being=20
automatic it wouldn't mean I had to be at home to bring it into=20
service. Sods law states you will be out when it happens and the=20
Parents will be house sitting... Explaining how to fire up genny then=20
reboot the PCs would be a pain...
>=20
> Nigel
>=20
> PS you may want to research low power kettles, not much help with a=20
UPS, as it has a finite amount of stored power, but would mean you=20
could boil a kettle with a 5KVA genny with the lights and TV etc.=20
on... (A normal kettle could pull as much as 3KVA).
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Whitfield [mailto:andywhitfield2002@y...]=20
> Sent: 13 January 2005 09:59
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Generators - is this a good one?
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> You can use a long runtime UPS for the light stuff (lights, TV,=20
> fridge, etc).  Obviously not electric heating, kettle, cooker,=20
etc!! I run my own modest business dealing solely in UPSs. Paul=20
Robinson, from this group, has recently bought a long runtime=20
> UPS from me.
> See http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/postt200.html
> Can add extra battery cabinets to this model.
>=20
> I also have even longer runtime models.  Ask me for details.
>=20
> Regards
> Andy Whitfield
>=20
> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "John Andrews" <groups@j...>
wrote:
> > Nigel
> >=20
> > Now that is impressive! 45A!
> >=20
> > Cheers for the tip about petrol, I did not know that petrol had a
> shelf life=20
> > and your comments about flammability - good point the genny can
go
> in the=20
> > shed (about 5 metres from the house).
> >=20
> > I do appreciate about the load while the genny is running, it is
> for the HA=20
> > stuff, fridge, lighting. I would avoid heavy items like the
cooker
> etc.
> >=20
> > Cheers
> > J
> >=20
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Nigel Giddings" <nigel@c...>
> > To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:52 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Generators - is this a good one?
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > I installed a Genset just before Christmas, well Christmas
eve=20
to
> be=20
> > > exact....
> > >
> > > I went for an 11KVA unit, I think with 5KVA you will need to
be
> careful=20
> > > what you try to use while the genny is running.
> > >
> > > The unit you list is petrol I think, you have to be careful
with
> petrol,=20
> > > its obviously highly flammable, but it will also lose its
punch
> after 12=20
> > > months due to the un-leaded fuel. It will be useless 18
months
> after it=20
> > > has left the pump... Maybe 12 if you are unlucky. A full
tank
> will give=20
> > > you 10 hours, is this really enough for seeing you through
the
> night?
> > >
> > > The unit is electric start so you may be able to set up a
auto-
> start and=20
> > > oil warning system will help to prevent major damage if=20
something
> occurs.=20
> > > I have seen these on e-bay for =A3200+
> > >
> > > I went to the other extreme with my unit, also from e-bay.
It
> cost =A33K by=20
> > > the time it was installed. It is a 2 cylinder air cooled
diesel
> with a 45A=20
> > > Generator. It has a fully enclosed acoustic hood and a 100
Hour
> fuel tank.=20
> > > It also  came with its own purpose built mains fail
changeover
> panel which=20
> > > means it is on line in less than 5 seconds...
> > >
> > > Pictures here
> > >
> > > http://photos.corbenic.co.uk/photos/photo_212.html
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Nigel
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Andrews [mailto:groups@j...]
> > > Sent: 12 January 2005 22:39
> > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [ukha_d] Generators - is this a good one?
> > >
> > > Hi Group
> > >
> > > Is the following a good generator?
> > >
> > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&category=3D46412&item=3D4348380265
> > >
> > > Basically I want something that will run the whole house
that I
> can mount=20
> > > in
> > > the loft (venting the exhaust outside).
> > > The HA kit is on a UPS that will last for about 10 mins
(enough
> time for=20
> > > me
> > > to flick a switch).
> > >
> > > Also is there anything out there that can detect a power
loss,
> switch on a
> > > generator and throw a relay? (and back again once the power
is
> back on)
>=20