Re: X10 / C-Bus for new build development

["theshawmeister" <iain@xxxxxxx>]

Thanks for this.  To my point about the RF signal though; am I right
in thinking that the RF signal from an X10 remote would be capable
of triggering an X10 signal in a neighbouring flat even if the flat
were completely isolated by filters.  For me this is the thing that
seems to rule X10 and RF out.  Where is my best source for data for
CEBus?, thanks
Iain

--- In ukha_d@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Harris" <phil@a...>
wrote:
>
> The other thing to think about too is that in practical terms X10
doesn't
> pass through an RCD - most modern electrical installations are
protected by
> a main RCD which would tend to block any outgoing X10.
>
> Of course if the lighting circuits aren't "on" the RCD (and
usually arent
> given that you don't want to be plunged into darkness if you
accidentally
> drop the kettle in the sink) then you will probably find that you
need a
> coupler to get the X10 signals onto the lighting ring.
>
> Phil
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Buckley [mailto:db@xxxxxxx...]
> > Sent: 10 January 2004 21:29
> > To: ukha_d@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [ukha_d] Re: X10 / C-Bus for new build development
> >
> >
> > --- In ukha_d@yahoogroups.com, "theshawmeister"
<iain@n...>
wrote:
> > > thanks for this, but the issue I'm looking at circumvents
X10
> > > filters on the mains feeds and I think also can't be managed
by
> > > House Codes
> >
> > The "range" of the X10 mains-bourne signal is limited
by, in the
> > order they usually apply to an installation:
> >
> > a) Parallel (ie between L and N) capacitance from (for example)
> > interference supression capacitor in power supplies.  Where
present,
> > these kill the X10 signal stone dead.
> >
> > b) Length of wiring - wiring has small amount of capacitance, and
> > this attenuates the 120KHz signal over distance.
> >
> > c) Filters or transformers - 120KHz will not pass through or
across
> > these.
> >
> > In non-big-city USA, and in many other sparsely populated areas,
> > each dwelling is fed by its own transformer, and this isolates
one
> > dweeling from another.  In the UK, it is rare for a house to have
> > its own transformer, and thus X10 leakage between houses can
occur,
> > and given the much smaller electrical distances involved in
flats,
> > inter-house leakage is almost guaranteed.
> >
> > Although you say its difficult, if you are contemplating X10 at
all
> > in a block of flats, then filters are almost mandatory; they are
DIN
> > rail mount, rated at 63A, failrly cheap, and fit directly into
the
> > consumer unit, and can be fitted by a comissioning sparkie.
> >
> > There is not really any serious competition to X10 in price
terms.
> > However, with X10 (and this is a design feature of the X10
powerline
> > control system) you get what you pay for, and although X10 has
its
> > place, I would not describe it as a reliable home automation
> > system.  For my own horror story, see http://www.ukha-
> > archive.com/archives/2003-may/msg00483.html
> >
> > Alternatively to X10, a "hard wired" system can be
considered.
> > These are "better" than X10, but cost more.  The local
favorite
here
> > is the Clipsal CBus system, but another alternative is EIB, the
> > European Installation Bus.  Although there are some differences
in
> > philosophy between the two systems, at the end of the day they
are
> > functionally identical, and price similar.  There are other
systems,
> > CEBus springs to mind.
> >
> > If you are majored on lights, then perhaps Lutron, Polaris or
> > something similar may suit.
> >
> >
> > UK Home Automation Meet 2004 - BOOK NOW!
> > http://www.ukha2004.com
> >
> > http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
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> >



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