Re: IRM +FirM Interfacing Update

["Frank Mc Alinden" <armagh@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Nik
            i will
try and do some blaster type tests..some of the questions
are getting lost in the transalation..but if Dan says it there should be
no
feedback problem then at this stage thats what we assume but i need to
test
to be sure........

Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nikola Kasic" <nikola@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 2:22 AM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update


> Hi Dan,
> You wrote this:
>
> Feedback from where? When a command is received in the AutoM8it
framework,
> then you can decide there what to do, generating an output event...
You
will
> know at that time the command received and the zone, so you can do
what
you
> want at that specific input event... Where is the feedback?
>     and Frank wrote this:
> It does analyze the signal and responds by sending a ir signal which
the
> receiver picks up and sents back again to hv or pc.......Its like when
you
> bring a guitar close to the speakers of an amp you get feedback
and  the
> squealing noise is the result..........The only thing i can think of
is if
> the RX Mode is disabled before and 500msec after a transmission
has
occurred
> that might work... will ask Dan.......
>
> so I was a bit confused... But if you say that there's no problem
with
> feedback if I go for your software and FirM, then I'll trust
you.:-).
>
> Cheers,
> Nik
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Dan [mailto:dtoma@xxxxxxx]
>   Sent: 25 October 2002 14:27
>   To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>   Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
>
>
>   > Sorry Dan,
>   > I obviously don't understand properly how this all IR
stuff works.
>   > What's the "carrier". I suppose that's some
high frequency IR signal
>   >modulates.
>
>   In order to be able to filter the signal at the receiver,
this is
> modulated
>   with a carrier, usualy between 30 and 40KHz.
>   In that way, you have two main advantages:
>       - can put a filter to increase the
S/N ration
>       - as the fill factor is less than
1/2, usually 1/3 or less, the LED
> can
>   drive a very big current for a short period of time and
the range can be
>   increase
>
>   >  I see that there are two types of IR signals,
one with, and one
without
>   > "carrier".
>   > I suppose that remotes use carrier.
>
>   Mainly ...yes.... it is an old IR protocol used by ITT,
with very small
>   pulses and without a carrier, but the single advantage of
that protocol
> was
>   that it require a very small current to operate,
increasing dramatically
>   remote battery life. As as cons, the range was not so good
and the
> bouncing
>   on walls is not as good as on carrier based protocols. So
remotes can
use
>   both....
>   .. and more
>
>   > Here you say that FirM transmitts signal without
carrier.
>   No... What I want to say is that IRM send the command to
the FirM
infrared
>   output interface without a carrier, because Firm himself
modulates the
>   signal with the 38KHz carrier and drive the infrared
LED.
>   IRM can generate the carrier too, if is used with a TxD
based interface
> (you
>   have an option in the interface)... then the carrier is
software
> generated,
>   so you can use a simple IR LED connected to the TxD pin to
send IR
> commands.
>
>   > What the equipment understand? Both?
>   I do not understand this question.....
>
>   > My whole idea for preventing feedback was to modify
original signal in
a
>   way
>   > that it will still be understood by receiving
equipment (TV, video),
but
>   > FirM and your software will be able to detect that it
has been modify,
> so
>   > you'll not analyze and transmit it anymore.
>
>   Feedback from where? When a command is received in the
AutoM8it
framework,
>   then you can decide there what to do, generating an output
event... You
> will
>   know at that time the command received and the zone, so
you can do what
> you
>   want at that specific input event... Where is the
feedback?
>
>
>   > By detecting those
>   > modifications, you will know that it already passed
through FirM and
> your
>   > software and passing it though again would generate
feedback.
>
>   As you will use IRM plugin for both input and output, the
feedback is
>   excluded, because during a command send, the receiving
routine is
stopped,
>   in the application. No need for other precautions.
>   If you mean by feedback the possibility to receive your
own generated
>   command and generate an infinite loop, this is not
possible with my
>   application.
>
>   > I hope that you understood me. I don't know how to
translate that in
> bits
>   > and "carriers". Maybe such thing is not
possible to achieve?
>
>   Not only possible, it is .... REAL..:-))
>
>   Best regards,
>   Dan
>
>   Cheers,
>   Nik
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Dan [mailto:dtoma@xxxxxxx]
>     Sent: 25 October 2002 12:51
>     To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>     Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing
Update
>
>
>     Hi Nikola,
>
>     > Regarding feedback, I thought that
"brain" (PC, Homevision) analyzes
> any
>     > signal received from zones and then
decides where to transfer it.
That
>     way,
>     > if I use TV remote in Living room, where
TV itself is located, it
>     recognizes
>     > the code as TV command and knows that
there is no need for
> transferring
>     that
>     > code to other rooms or to living room
itself, because TV can receive
>     command
>     > from remote controller directly.
>
>     If you will use AutoM8it, then this will be
easily possible, based on
>     events.
>     Anyhow, the system does not pass IR commands
by himself.
>
>     > If you send a TV command from bedroom, it
knows that there's no TV
> there
>     and
>     > transmitts command in the living room
only, because it knows that TV
> is
>     >there.
>     The same comment.
>
>     > Can Dan put some more inteligence in
signal, e.g. by putting one or
> two
>     > extra bits at the end of the original
signal as "identifiers".
"Brain"
>     will
>     > then know if it receives such signal that
it was sent by FirM so it
> will
>     not
>     > transmit it anymore. Such
"identifier" bits should not be recognized
> by
>     any
>     > of the equipment as commands.
>
>     If I understand well, you want to use two
systems in paralel? The
signal
>     generated by the PC is the IR command (without
the carrier if using
> FirM),
>     so if I put some extra bits, then it will not
contain a valid IR
> command.
>     Please be more specific.
>
>     Thank you,
>     Dan
>
>
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: Frank Mc Alinden
[mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
>       Sent: 25 October 2002 11:47
>       To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>       Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM
Interfacing Update
>
>
>       Hi Nik
>                  
The cat5 socket is the highest component so around
>       10-15mm....Remember though a cat5
plug goes into it....
>
>       IR Feedback
>       If you use blaster type emitters
then when you press the button on
> your
>       remote pointed at the rx unit the
response from the pc (ir signal)
> will
>     get
>       send out of the blaster ir led
picked up by the tv or whatever and
> also
>     the
>       zone rx unit and sent back again
to the pc and just goes into an tx
rx
>       loop...........
>
>       Frank
>
>
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: "Nikola Kasic"
<nikola@xxxxxxx>
>       To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
>       Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002
8:04 PM
>       Subject: RE: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM
Interfacing Update
>
>
>       > Hi Frank,
>       > Just checked my single gang
box.
>       > Dimensions are 68x68x25mm
>       > So probably it will fit into
double gang one.
>       > Can you tell me what's the
depth of the device?
>       >
>       > There's no way for me to
bring CAT5 close enough to use stick on
>     emitters.
>       >
>       > What are feedback
problems?
>       >
>       > Cheers,
>       > Nik
>       >   -----Original
Message-----
>       >   From: Frank Mc
Alinden [mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
>       >   Sent: 24 October
2002 12:19
>       >   To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>       >   Subject: Re:
[ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
>       >
>       >
>       >   Hi Nik
>      
>              
I think there would be problems if using ir blaster
> type
>       >   emitting......i
have only tested the system with stick on
>       > emitters........Im
>       >   sure there would
be feedback problems...Have you located your
cat5
>       points
>       >   above were your
equipment is....if so is there any way you can
get
> a
>       thin
>       >   type speaker wire
down to the equipment to use for emitters????
>       >   > And if it
is, will it fit into a single gang box?
>       >   Its been a long
time since i seen a UK plate.....the pcb is
around
>     75mm
>       x
>       >   50mm
>       >
>       >   Frank
>       >   ----- Original
Message -----
>       >   From:
"Nikola Kasic" <nikola@xxxxxxx>
>       >   To:
<ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
>       >   Sent: Thursday,
October 24, 2002 8:13 PM
>       >   Subject: RE:
[ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
>       >
>       >
>       >   > Hoooray!
>       >   > Three
times...
>       >   > But, of
course, nothing is perfect, so to get SWMBO approval i
>   would
>       > like
>       >   to
>       >   > put
transmitters and receivers high on the wall in a box
behind
> a
>       > blanking
>       >   > plate. I
would then drill a hole in a plate for IR LEDs.
>       >   > Is something
like that possible?
>       >   > And if it
is, will it fit into a single gang box?
>       >   > And will
single CAT5 cable be enough for both Tx and Rx?
>       >   > Electrician
put the cables throug the strategic points last
> week,
>     and
>       > he's
>       >   > not finished
yet. I left enough length curled and hidden for
the
>       future
>       > IR
>       >   > solution,
but if I can do it the way I plan, I might order
>       >   >
transmitters/receivers and ask electrician to put boxes in
place
>   and
>       >   cables
>       >   > through wall
to each box.
>       >   >
>       >   > Dan's idea
of controling lights via IR is interesting.
>       >   > But where
transmitters must be placed relative to IR receiver
on
>     light
>       >   > switch? Can
they be on the same wall? That means that IR
signal
>   will
>       > have
>       >   to
>       >   > bounce off
the walls. Is that possible and will they bounce
off
>   any
>       wall
>       >   and
>       >   > furniture,
or just some (e.g. wall carpets).
>       >   >
>       >   > Cheers
>       >   > Nik
>       >   >  
-----Original Message-----
>       >   >  
From: Frank Mc Alinden [mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
>       >   >  
Sent: 22 October 2002 20:40
>       >   >  
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>       >   >  
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
>       >   >
>       >   >
>       >   >  
Thats correct Nik
>       >  
>                              
Hopefully when finished (the pc
>       interface)
>       >   a
>       >   > pc
>       >   >  
user can have a multizone rx tx /rx using Automat8it
software
>   with
>       > Dans
>       >   >  
plugins and my pc interface + FirM .
>       >   >
>       >   >  
Frank
>       >   >  
----- Original Message -----
>       >   >  
From: "Nikola Kasic" <nikola@xxxxxxx>
>       >   >  
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
>       >   >  
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:35 AM
>       >   >  
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
>       >   >
>       >   >
>       >   >  
> Frank, if I understand properly, with IRM and FirM you can
> use
>     PC
>       >   >  
(Autom8it)
>       >   >  
> as a brain and control where the commands will be
> transmitted.
>       That
>       >   way
>       >   > IR
>       >   >  
> commands will not be sent through the whole house, but to
> the
>       >   >  
pre-programed
>       >   >  
> zones only. Also, we don't need a HV for controling FirM,
> but
>     can
>       > use
>       >   > PC.
>       >   >  
> Can you tell me am I right?
>       >   >  
> Cheers,
>       >   >  
> Nik
>       >   >  
>   -----Original Message-----
>       >   >  
>   From: Frank Mc Alinden [mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
>       >   >  
>   Sent: 22 October 2002 12:38
>       >   >  
>   To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>       >   >  
>   Subject: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
>       >   >  
>
>       >   >  
>
>       >   >  
>   HI all
>       >   >  
>           Just a
quick update on were Dan and I are at
with
>   Dans
>       IRM
>       >   and
>       >   >  
my
>       >   >  
> FirM....
>       >   >  
>
>       >   >  
>   Well at the moment Using Dans software the pc can send
a
> tx
>     zone
>       >   > command
>       >   >  
> to the FirM Interface and select a tx zone on
> firm.......Also
>     when
>       > an
>       >   ir
>       >   >  
> signal is received by Dans software it asks the interface
> for
>     zone
>       > id
>       >   > and
>       >   >  
> displays it on the pc........At this point im trying to
get
> my
>     ir
>       >   sytem
>       >   >  
> (firm + hv) to respond to a txed ir signal with little
luck
>   not
>       sure
>       >   if
>       >   >  
its
>       >   >  
> a hardware problem????
>       >   >  
>
>       >   >  
>   More Soon
>       >   >  
>
>       >   >  
>   Frank
>       >   >  
>
>       >   >  
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>       >   >  
>
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