Re: Re: placing microphones...

["Paul Gordon" <paul_gordon@xxxxxxx>]

My WAF-annoying exploration into the short-lived world of VR, was that
every
time SWMBO hoovered in the lounge, the HA would endlessly repeat the time
to
her!

needless to say, my efforts into experimenting with VR were soon
curtailed...

Paul G.



>From: "psghome2002" <psghome@xxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>Subject: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:26:21 -0000
>
>It's worse when your commands are misinterpreted rather than not
>recognised at all...
>
>How embarassing when standing naked in the living room trying to
>turn on the TV (you know you've done it!) and all of a sudden the
>lights come on full and the curtains open!
>
>Paul.
>
>--- In ukha_d@y..., "Amar Nagi" <amar@a...> wrote:
> > Your points about a phone are true, but you have to have a
>compromise.
> > I would not like to be sitting in the bathroom screaming commands
> > That are not being recognized, I would rather just have the
>wireless
> > Phone with me. I mean if I am in the bathroom I would still want
> > To be able to answer the phone.
> >
> > I would have loved a Star Trek Solution but found to my
>disappointment
> > It just does not exist and will not for a long time. I spoke
> > To a lot of automation experts in the states and over here too.
> > And that is what I found.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx...]
> > Sent: 15 July 2002 17:34
> > To: ukha_d@y...
> > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
> >
> > You're right, but I don't have to implement everything now. I
have
>to put cables for speakers, PIR and IR Tx/Rx, so I'll use the
>oportunity to put mic cable as well. I hope this is the last time I
>am putting cables and I'll probably put speakers now and tre rest of
>the cables hide in the wall. So when the time comes and technology
>is ready, I'll be ready as well.
> > The problem with phone is that you still have to carry phone with
>yourself. Then IR remote would be even more reliable. Recognition
>would be 100%, but the point is not having to carry anything.
> > Do you carry phone in a bathroom? ;-).
> > And what if you want to give some command while someone is
talking
>on the phone?
> > Nik
> > 	-----Original Message-----
> > 	From: Amar Nagi [mailto:amar@xxxxxxx...]
> > 	Sent: 15 July 2002 17:17
> > 	To: ukha_d@y...
> > 	Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
> > 	Nikola,
> >
> > 	Can i just add something to this discussion.
> > 	I too looked at a microphone solution to VR home automation,
>and after alot of
> > 	research i decided not to. I went for a cordless phone
>solution instead.
> > 	It is just not reliable enough. One major point i hated was
>if you have guests
> > 	round with kids they too can start speaking commands.
> > 	I saw a few future homes and each one opted for the phone or
>headset solution.
> > 	Check out the orange.co.uk future home project.
> >
> > 	It can be really embrassing siting with guests trying to
>give commands
> > 	to your node0 and getting no response, whereas the phone
>solution
> > 	works i would say 95% of the time if not more.
> >
> > 	Food for thought..........
> >
> > 		-----Original Message-----
> > 		From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx...]
> > 		Sent: Mon 15/07/2002 16:57
> > 		To: ukha_d@y...
> > 		Cc:
> > 		Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
> > 		Paul,
> > 		I am sitting in a sofa opposite the TV and I am
>faced towards TV. Where should I mount my mic? If I mount mic on a
>wall behind me it will be closer to me then to the TV but it will be
>behind my back. If I place it behind TV, I'll be faced towards mic,
>but TV will be closer. So, which way to go?
> > 		My original plan is neither. I planned to put it
>above the doors of the lounge, so it would be at on the side, almost
>equally distanced from me and TV (slightly closer to TV). But
>distance between me and mic and TV and mic will be about 4-5m, while
>distance between me and TV is about 3.5m.
> > 		Is that O.K?
> > 		I am reading all the theory, but I'm not smarter.
>All the documents are for the environment when you know where
>speaker is standing, so you use different kinds of mics to enhance
>reception from speaker and attenuate the noise. Hence kardioid etc.
>mics.
> > 		However, in a flat I'll be moving and for moving
>speakers they recommend using wireless mics which you wear, but you
>don't want those either. So there's no proper solution. I'll asume
>that I'll be in a sofa and try to adjust everything for that
>scenario. All the rest is in god's hands.
> > 		Where did you buy your microphones from?
> >
> > 		I just ordered mic cable. It would cost me about 44
>quid, because delivery is £8.
> > 		Spoke to Mark from West London Elec as you
>recommended.
> > 		They don't have web site yet (will in a month, he
>said) and their address is 9-11Acton High Road if anyone is
>interested.
> >
> > 		You said that you did a lot of research before
>diving into this. What makes you think that recognition is not good
>because of software and not because of hardware or microphone
>placement?
> > 		Did you ever consider placing wireless microphones,
>instead of wired ones, so you can place more of them, at more
>appropriate places?
> > 		Regarding noise cancellation, did you consider
>having one mic very close to TV speaker and use that signal for
>cancellation. Maybe having wireless one and place it on top, or
>inside the TV speaker, or inside TV?
> >
> > 		Nik
> > 			-----Original Message-----
> > 			From: psghome2002 [mailto:psghome@xxxxxxx...]
> > 			Sent: 15 July 2002 13:21
> > 			To: ukha_d@y...
> > 			Subject: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
> > 			I'm emailing several people with the same
>info at the moment - maybe
> > 			I should put it all down on a web page (if I
>ever get the time!).
> > 			See my comments below (rather long though):
> >
> >
> > 			> What do you use them for, at the moment?
> >
> > 			Used for Voice Recognition - tried HAL2000
>and HomeVoice. Both got
> > 			serious limitations in the way I want to use
>it though. I've been
> > 			talking to Dan Hoenhen (ACE) about him
>developing an ACE VR module
> > 			which could potentially be much more
>flexible than HAL or HomeVoice.
> >
> > 			Also will use as additional voice/noise
>tracking as part of Comfort
> > 			alarm system - recording when alarm
>activated. Got a lot to do
> > 			before that though.
> >
> > 			> Do you have one in each room, or maybe two
>in larger rooms like
> > 			lounge?
> >
> > 			only one in each room (well 7 so far).
>Although some of my rooms are
> > 			fairly large, one mic picks up voice OK
>(depending on background
> > 			noise). Interesting listening to
>conversations - not that I'd do
> > 			that of course!
> >
> > 			> Which cable did you use? Someone said that
>it's very important to
> > 			put good
> > 			> quality microphone cable. Where did you
>buy it?
> >
> > 			I agree - mic cable is very different to
>other types of cable. I
> > 			used an Adastra Z323 cable - 2 cores with
>overall screen.
> > 			recommended for 'installed' sound
>applications. Got it from  West
> > 			London Elec - Mark - 0208 9922155. £35.25
>inc VAT per 100m drum.
> >
> >
> > 			> And what's your longest run from mic to
>mixer?
> >
> > 			About 20-30m I guess. Mic cable can run much
>longer distances
> > 			though. I've used it on productions in
>excess of 60m
> >
> > 			> I am sorry for so many questions, but
>there are only few people
> > 			with
> > 			> microphones on this group, so you are very
>valuable source of
> > 			information.
> > 			> It seems that the most important thing is
>placing them.
> > 			> Where did you place yours?
> >
> > 			On the wall at light switch height. Although
>the guys at Shure are
> > 			very adamant about not ceiling mounting, I
>did try taping a mic at
> > 			various points around the room and the
>difference was normally quite
> > 			small. Best to site it towards where you
>will speak. I suggest you
> > 			try it like this before running cable.
> >
> > 			> At the begining, I'll have my microphone
>in the lounge only.
> > 			Therefore, I'll
> > 			> not use mixer yet (have to save money for
>it first). That's where
> > 			it will be
> > 			> mostly used for giving commands for
>controlling devices. My lounge
> > 			is
> > 			> 6.5mx3.8m. Sofa is opposite to the TV and
>that's where, usually
> > 			I'll be
> > 			> giving commands from.
> > 			> But it's not simple for me to bring
>microphone close to the sofa.
> > 			How did
> > 			> you place yours?
> > 			> How does it behave when TV is playing? Is
>it capable of
> > 			distinguishing your
> > 			> voice from TV voice, or do you have to
>yell?
> >
> > 			You need to set your expectations as to what
>to expect from 'open
> > 			air voice recognition'. The results will
>range from good to very
> > 			poor (it's very frustrating when you have to
>repeat yourself many
> > 			times!). VR technology (at least in open
>air) is still limited. If
> > 			you've got a TV on (depending on volume) the
>results will vary a
> > 			lot. After all, how could the software
>distinguish bet
> > 			>   which
> > 			>   > cables they used and where did they
>place microphones.
> > 			>   > Cheers,
> > 			>   > Nik
> > 			>
> > 			>
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> >
> > 			Your use ches
> > 			correctly. This of > 			>   which
> > 			>   > cables they used and where did they
>place microphones.
> > 			>   > Cheers,
> > 			>   > Nik
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> >
> > 			Your use acing
>microphones...
> > 	PD
> > 			>   which
> > 			>   > cables they used and where did they
>place microphones.
> > 			>   > Cheers,
> > 			>   > Nik
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> >
> > 			Your use ly senses which mic
> > 			> > 			>   which
> > 			>   > cables they used and where did they
>place microphones.
> > 			>   > Cheers,
> > 			>   > Nik
> > 			>
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> > 			Your use  if you want more info.
> >
> > 			>   which
> > 			>   > cables they used and where did they
>place microphones.
> > 			>   > Cheers,
> > 			>   > Nik
> > 			>
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> >
> > 			Your use 's their
> > 			experience,
> > 			>   which
> > 			>   > cables they used and where did they
>place microphones.
> > 			>   > Cheers,
> > 			>   > Nik
> > 			>
> > 			>
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