Possible Clipsal UKHA HA Lighting buy - with xAP gateway

["Kevin Hawkins" <lists@xxxxxxx>]

Hello All...

Time for some good news on two fronts.

    First , with the xAP 1.2 specification now out the door = I can now
announce that we are in discussions with Clipsal about the possibility of providing a link between C-Bus2 and xAP. This would allow the extensive
range of Clipsal C-Bus products to be controlled from and to control xAP based devices. This would create a professional range of CE approved, UK compatible wall switches,  dimmers, relays, PIR sensors, light and
temperature sensors and infra red receivers and transmitters in a range of<= BR> styles and colours for the home installer. Clipsal is the number one brand<= BR> of electrical accessories in Asia and Australia and in the top 5 worldwide<= BR> so I am delighted that they have shown such an interest in xAP. Clipsal
lighting installations have been used extensively in commercial buildings,<= BR> hotels and perhaps most prestigiously in the recent Olympic Stadium builds.=
I understand our own Wembley Stadium will be using C-Bus2 too.

    Secondly , I am hopeful that based on some reasonable de= mand from people
on this list that we will be able to put together a starter bundle of
products that will be at special price for the UKHA/xAP enthusiasts. The C-Bus solution offers a 100% reliable and near instantaneous lighting and power control system achieved through it's interconnection of switches by a=
single pair of wires normally contained in a CAT5 cable run. This is it's critical advantage over X10 and wireless type solutions. Whilst we will not=
be able to quite reach the price points of say X10 I hope that the added 'professional' level of this system will be attractive to many.

    Timescales ? - Well we have a lot of development work to= do on the xAP
gateway and this is likely to be available in a couple of different
implementations. Fairly quickly, allowing for Xmas -say within 8 weeks we should have the 'software' version  of the gateway available which wil= l
require that you purchase a C-Bus interface, either the RS232/PC interface<= BR> or the Ethernet interface. Early beta versions of this gateway will be made=
available soon . A later development will be to offer our own xAP gateway that itself directly attaches to C-Bus and contains an embedded processor running the xAP gateway. This may be around two months after the software gateway. This latter option should be more cost effective. All these
timescales are best guesses at this stage.

    Clipsal C-Bus is a standalone , controller less lighting= implementation
with a freeform topology wiring arrangement meaning that a single pair of cables runs between all C-Bus devices providing both power and
communications. The devices may be daisychained or connected in a star
arrangement, or indeed combinations of the two. The power control devices are DIN mounted and provide a range of lamp dimmer circuits and power
switching relay circuits. The wiring of the DIN units is similar to that of=
the X10 DIN units (LD11 LD/AD10) in that the power feeds to the lights / power outlets are brought back in the same way to the consumer unit where the DIN modules are mounted. Indeed if you have AD10's or LD11's already th= e
load switching wiring is already present.  The switches are interconne= cted
throughout the house by the C-Bus pair (e.g. CAT5) and only one pair is
brought back to the consumer unit for all switches , so to that extent it i= s
much easier. Anyone who has had the forethought and planning to run CAT5 to=
behind their light switches is well rewarded here !

    Some information on C-Bus can be found here http://www.clipsal.com/cis
although I have found the website a little confusing , there is a new UK catalogue out and I can email interested parties with some information if you contact me (offlist) - please use Clipsal_xAP@xxxxxxx. I may have some printed catalogues available too. One of the new switches called the 'Neo' is particularly worth a look
http://www.cli= psal.com/cis/newproducts_neo.php3.

   The question no doubt your asking is - what's the cost ? Well = as in all
things it's a little bit chicken and egg, I have no idea on the quantity take-up yet but assuming we have some reasonable interest I am going to
'guess' around the following. Please not these are not individual prices, the kit will only be available as a number of different bundles, I have
simply tried to allow you to guess what it may cost for your own desired configuration.  Each dimmer channel will cost around =A340 and each re= lay
channel about =A325 - however these are in a block of 8 dimmer circuits and= 12
relays, there are smaller units available but they are not cost effective.<= BR> Overall the relays work out  cheaper than the equivalent X10 DIN modul= e and
the dimmers more expensive (X10 are =A335 approx per channel for both). A 4=
gang switch costs around =A350 and this doesn't vary much with the number o= f
gangs so a 4 way is about the same cost as a single gang. A single gang X10=
switch costs =A330, although this includes the load switching circuitry, no=
multi-gang or multi-way switches are available from X10 although with the DIN modules you can use standard momentary switches. The Clipsal switches support full two way (n-way) switching, indeed any switch can control many<= BR> different lighting circuits simultaneously and you can instantly re-program=
which switches control what without any wiring changes. Worth mentioning to= o
is that you can continue to use your existing switches if you wish by use o= f
a little box that goes behind the switch and supports 4 gang switches calle= d
a C-Bus coupler. I have yet to get pricing on these but probably =A315/swit= ch
. Ideally for full HA use (dimming etc) your switches should be momentary types though.

   On top of this you will need some form of C-Bus network interf= ace - this
might be the PC (RS232) interface, the Ethernet interface for those real enthusiasts or the xAP gateway module. Both C-Gates interfaces are expensiv= e
=A3250/=A3500 although the xAP gateway may come in at around =A3100.

   So overall an 8 channel lighting setup with say 4 x (4 gang) s= witches and
the xAP gateway - around =A3620 ???
          ...   = ;  a 12 channel power (appliance) switching setup with same
switches & gateway - around =A3600
            &nb= sp;     a 12 channel power switching + 8 lighting chann= els with
same switches & gateway - around =A3820

   Of course you might not need the the Clipsal switches at all -= if you are
controlling the dimmers / relays directly from xAP then you can do away wit= h
these - or conversely you might just use Clipsal's switches as xAP sources<= BR> and use them for your own triggering purposes.

   So - big question - is there an interest at this level ? - ple= ase contact
me offlist and let me know , or perhaps with any comments (
Clipsal_xAP@xxxxxxx ). I must stress that I am not here  to make m= oney
out of this, this is effectively a bulk buy possibility and also a feeler a= s
to whether it is worth putting the effort into the development and
manufacture of the Clipsal to xAP gateway device . I would hope perhaps
though to recover some of my costs. I am not worried about the time and
effort to do this but I would like to feel that people would be interested<= BR> in the final product ...

  I would also like to mention that John Tankard is working on a simil= ar
lighting control product with a native xAP interface connection , doing awa= y
with the extra gateway needs - from comments he has made I think he may wel= l
achieve a lower cost solution, although I don't think he will be seeking CE=
approval. Clipsal's remaining products would still complement this offering=
and hopefully there will be some xAP native switches on the way too
eventually.

   Please feel free to ask questions about C-Bus - I have recentl= y moved
over from an X10 based installation to C-Bus and I am delighted, Rob Mouser=
of this list was the influence in this decision. I know we are both very happy with the change. Questions of general interest for all to the list please and to me directly for showing a level of interest/disinterest.

     Kevin


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