RE: Possible Clipsal UKHA HA Lighting buy - with xAP gateway

[Mike Griffiths <mike@xxxxxxx>]

Kevin
I have modified my lighting so that I have 6 small consumer units around th= e
house (in cupboards ) I can easily get control cables to these
How easy is it to substitute Clipsal for X10 Din units with regard to the Mains Wiring and size of unit?
Local switch control is not an issue as I have none!!


Mike


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Hawkins [mailto:lists@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 14 December 2002 00:41
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: [ukha_d] Possible Clipsal UKHA HA Lighting buy - with xAP gat= eway
>
> Hello All...
>
>  Time for some good news on two fronts.
>
>     First , with the xAP 1.2 specification now out= the door I can now
> announce that we are in discussions with Clipsal about the possibility= of
> providing a link between C-Bus2 and xAP. This would allow the extensiv= e
> range of Clipsal C-Bus products to be controlled from and to control x= AP
> based devices. This would create a professional range of CE approved, = UK
> compatible wall switches,  dimmers, relays, PIR sensors, light an= d
> temperature sensors and infra red receivers and transmitters in a rang= e of
> styles and colours for the home installer. Clipsal is the number one b= rand
> of electrical accessories in Asia and Australia and in the top 5 world= wide
> so I am delighted that they have shown such an interest in xAP. Clipsa= l
> lighting installations have been used extensively in commercial buildi= ngs,
> hotels and perhaps most prestigiously in the recent Olympic Stadium > builds.
> I understand our own Wembley Stadium will be using C-Bus2 too.
>
>     Secondly , I am hopeful that based on some rea= sonable demand from
> people
> on this list that we will be able to put together a starter bundle of<= BR> > products that will be at special price for the UKHA/xAP enthusiasts. T= he
> C-Bus solution offers a 100% reliable and near instantaneous lighting = and
> power control system achieved through it's interconnection of switches= by
> a
> single pair of wires normally contained in a CAT5 cable run. This is i= t's
> critical advantage over X10 and wireless type solutions. Whilst we wil= l
> not
> be able to quite reach the price points of say X10 I hope that the add= ed
> 'professional' level of this system will be attractive to many.
>
>     Timescales ? - Well we have a lot of developme= nt work to do on the xAP
> gateway and this is likely to be available in a couple of different > implementations. Fairly quickly, allowing for Xmas -say within 8 weeks= we
> should have the 'software' version  of the gateway available whic= h will
> require that you purchase a C-Bus interface, either the RS232/PC inter= face
> or the Ethernet interface. Early beta versions of this gateway will be=
> made
> available soon . A later development will be to offer our own xAP gate= way
> that itself directly attaches to C-Bus and contains an embedded proces= sor
> running the xAP gateway. This may be around two months after the softw= are
> gateway. This latter option should be more cost effective. All these > timescales are best guesses at this stage.
>
>     Clipsal C-Bus is a standalone , controller les= s lighting
> implementation
> with a freeform topology wiring arrangement meaning that a single pair= of
> cables runs between all C-Bus devices providing both power and
> communications. The devices may be daisychained or connected in a star=
> arrangement, or indeed combinations of the two. The power control devi= ces
> are DIN mounted and provide a range of lamp dimmer circuits and power<= BR> > switching relay circuits. The wiring of the DIN units is similar to th= at
> of
> the X10 DIN units (LD11 LD/AD10) in that the power feeds to the lights= /
> power outlets are brought back in the same way to the consumer unit wh= ere
> the DIN modules are mounted. Indeed if you have AD10's or LD11's alrea= dy
> the
> load switching wiring is already present.  The switches are inter= connected
> throughout the house by the C-Bus pair (e.g. CAT5) and only one pair i= s
> brought back to the consumer unit for all switches , so to that extent= it
> is
> much easier. Anyone who has had the forethought and planning to run CA= T5
> to
> behind their light switches is well rewarded here !
>
>     Some information on C-Bus can be found here http://www.clipsal.com/cis
> although I have found the website a little confusing , there is a new = UK
> catalogue out and I can email interested parties with some information= if
> you contact me (offlist) - please use Clipsal_xAP@xxxxxxx. I may h= ave
> some printed catalogues available too. One of the new switches called = the
> 'Neo' is particularly worth a look
> http://ww= w.clipsal.com/cis/newproducts_neo.php3.
>
>    The question no doubt your asking is - what's the co= st ? Well as in all
> things it's a little bit chicken and egg, I have no idea on the quanti= ty
> take-up yet but assuming we have some reasonable interest I am going t= o
> 'guess' around the following. Please not these are not individual pric= es,
> the kit will only be available as a number of different bundles, I hav= e
> simply tried to allow you to guess what it may cost for your own desir= ed
> configuration.  Each dimmer channel will cost around =A340 and ea= ch relay
> channel about =A325 - however these are in a block of 8 dimmer circuit= s and
> 12
> relays, there are smaller units available but they are not cost effect= ive.
> Overall the relays work out  cheaper than the equivalent X10 DIN = module
> and
> the dimmers more expensive (X10 are =A335 approx per channel for both)= . A 4
> gang switch costs around =A350 and this doesn't vary much with the num= ber of
> gangs so a 4 way is about the same cost as a single gang. A single gan= g
> X10
> switch costs =A330, although this includes the load switching circuitr= y, no
> multi-gang or multi-way switches are available from X10 although with = the
> DIN modules you can use standard momentary switches. The Clipsal switc= hes
> support full two way (n-way) switching, indeed any switch can control = many
> different lighting circuits simultaneously and you can instantly re- > program
> which switches control what without any wiring changes. Worth mentioni= ng
> too
> is that you can continue to use your existing switches if you wish by = use
> of
> a little box that goes behind the switch and supports 4 gang switches<= BR> > called
> a C-Bus coupler. I have yet to get pricing on these but probably
> =A315/switch
> . Ideally for full HA use (dimming etc) your switches should be moment= ary
> types though.
>
>    On top of this you will need some form of C-Bus netw= ork interface -
> this
> might be the PC (RS232) interface, the Ethernet interface for those re= al
> enthusiasts or the xAP gateway module. Both C-Gates interfaces are
> expensive
> =A3250/=A3500 although the xAP gateway may come in at around =A3100. >
>    So overall an 8 channel lighting setup with say 4 x = (4 gang) switches
> and
> the xAP gateway - around =A3620 ???
>           ... &= nbsp;   a 12 channel power (appliance) switching setup with same<= BR> > switches & gateway - around =A3600
>            = ;       a 12 channel power switching + 8 ligh= ting channels with
> same switches & gateway - around =A3820
>
>    Of course you might not need the the Clipsal switche= s at all - if you
> are
> controlling the dimmers / relays directly from xAP then you can do awa= y
> with
> these - or conversely you might just use Clipsal's switches as xAP sou= rces
> and use them for your own triggering purposes.
>
>    So - big question - is there an interest at this lev= el ? - please
> contact
> me offlist and let me know , or perhaps with any comments (
> Clipsal_xAP@xxxxxxx ). I must stress that I am not here  to m= ake money
> out of this, this is effectively a bulk buy possibility and also a fee= ler
> as
> to whether it is worth putting the effort into the development and
> manufacture of the Clipsal to xAP gateway device . I would hope perhap= s
> though to recover some of my costs. I am not worried about the time an= d
> effort to do this but I would like to feel that people would be intere= sted
> in the final product ...
>
>   I would also like to mention that John Tankard is working = on a similar
> lighting control product with a native xAP interface connection , doin= g
> away
> with the extra gateway needs - from comments he has made I think he ma= y
> well
> achieve a lower cost solution, although I don't think he will be seeki= ng
> CE
> approval. Clipsal's remaining products would still complement this
> offering
> and hopefully there will be some xAP native switches on the way too > eventually.
>
>    Please feel free to ask questions about C-Bus - I ha= ve recently moved
> over from an X10 based installation to C-Bus and I am delighted, Rob > Mouser
> of this list was the influence in this decision. I know we are both ve= ry
> happy with the change. Questions of general interest for all to the li= st
> please and to me directly for showing a level of interest/disinterest.=
>
>      Kevin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> http://www.automatedhome.co= .uk
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