>However, if I bought a TiVo, I'd expect to be able to use it manually, without the sub in some circumstances (like - because I was building a fully integrated Home Entertainment >system and wanted something else to glue it together.)

But TiVo is not marketed or sold as a HDD player/recorder. It is the whole TiVo concept that you are buying into with your purchase. TiVo are quite clear up front that your product will be severely disabled without a subscription.

TiVo's financial model seems to be akin to mobile phones operators models - i.e. subsidise the hardware cost and charge a subscription. If you don't pay a subscription then your phone is limited (maybe incoming calls only / only useful as a door stop). There can not be any markup on the TiVo hardware, although I agree they probably aren't making a loss on the hardware either.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 04 April 2002 16:29
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ukha_d] TiVo question

Yeah... email lag, eh?

Personally, if I bought a TiVo, then I'd take out the sub. My question about "over the net" was about bandwidth utilisation, not about information piracy...

However, if I bought a TiVo, I'd expect to be able to use it manually, without the sub in some circumstances (like - because I was building a fully integrated Home Entertainment system and wanted something else to glue it together.)

Mark Harrison
Head of Systems, eKingfisher

-----Original Message-----
From: Don McAllister [mailto:donmc@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 4 April 2002 16:20
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ukha_d] TiVo question

Mark, presume my response to Kevin crossed in Yahoospace. Misunderstanding as to the nature of the exercise. Now cleared up and I for one would be more than happy to see a way of linking 2 TiVos together!!

Cheers

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 04 April 2002 16:00
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ukha_d] TiVo question

Don,

Why should we take this discussion off-list?

TiVo sell two things:

- A piece of hardware

- A data feed

If it were a discussion about "how could one get the TiVo data feed without paying them", then this would be different. It would be a discussion of piracy, plain and simple, and this list is no place for it.

It's not - it's a discussion of "how can one use the TiVo hardware without using their data feed", then that's different. The TiVo hardware is sold, standalone, and while it's obviously got a tremendous value-add from using the data feed, it's certainly not the only way to use it, or the only way forward.

Mark Harrison
Head of Systems, eKingfisher

-----Original Message-----
From: Don McAllister [mailto:donmc@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 4 April 2002 14:32
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ukha_d] TiVo question

Guys, Without a subscription the machine is next to useless. You cannot manually set up recordings all you can do is capture the 30mins live TV cache and nothing else, zippo.

The whole concept of the TiVo is based on the subscription and the automatic download of the enriched (!) TV listings. I know it sounds a lot but it really is worth the outlay to get the sub.

As someone else mentioned, the discussion of subscription dodging is frowned upon in the TiVo forums. Whilst it probably is technically achievable, it is not encouraged. This is presumably to stop people taking revenue from TiVo to ensure they remain in business and develop the platform.

If you wish to continue discussing bypassing subscription charges, can you take it off list please.

Ta

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Mc Aree [mailto:michael.mcaree@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 04 April 2002 14:20
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ukha_d] TiVo question

Actually I am thinking about using Digiguide with a bit of programming to automatically send the IR commands to a Tivo without a subscription

Not sure how this will help. I thought that you could not add manual recordings without a subscription. What IR commands are you planning to send?

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RE: TiVo question