Re: CFL and 'X10 noise'

["Jim Hewitt" <jim.hewitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Robert Green" <robert_green1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:hcaro1$dqs$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Jim Hewitt" <jim.hewitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:hc9uci$vv7
> <stuff snipped>
>> I have been using CFLs for a year and a half now (mostly NVision brand)
> and
>> have not noticed any degradation in my X10 performance/behavior.  And
>> believe me, if my wife had noticed I WOULD have heard all about it!
>>
>> Jim
>
> The nVision bulbs are unique in my experience for not giving X-10 fits.
> That's excluding some special very high-priced allegedly dimmable CFL's I
> got from Smarthome.  I don't count them since I can't bring myself to pay
> $17 a light bulb anymore.  Once as an experiment but not as a commodity.
>
> I had tried a lot of bulbs and most had either noise or signal sucking
> issues.  But Marc H. recommended nVision here and I have been able to
> abandon special X-10 filters in the places that I use them.  I'm hoping
> he's
> right on the money again with the web control device that he recently
> described in another thread 'cuz I just ordered one.  But I digress.
>
> My experience in the past with CFL's dictated that I buy a LOT of the
> nVision once it was clear they worked so much better than the GE's I had
> been using and the Lites of Americas (which I've banned).  Internal
> designs
> of electronic gear can vary greatly over a product's lifetime and I'd
> already been burned by "slip-streamed" changes.  I had one batch of GE
> bulbs
> that were fine, but another batch of the exact same model made about a
> month
> later sucked the X-10 signal down about 1.5V.  So I bought a carton of 4
> packs of the 13W bulbs that were on sale for some ridiculously low price
> at
> Home Depot and they've been mostly doing quite nicely.  Mostly.  One minor
> problem is they are just not bright enough and like most CFLs, dim
> considerably after the first few months of use.  As a result, I end up
> using
> Y splitters or two fixture where I would have used one before.  Still 26W
> beats 60 or 75W of electricity.  I also find that when you get to the CFL
> equivalent of 100W tungsten sizes, CFLs start to get awfully big and hard
> to
> accommodate in many fixtures..
>
> The only serious problem left with the nVision bulbs (that the GE CFL's
> ironically did NOT suffer from) are that they flash after being remotely
> turned off.  This is especially true of a single bulb controlled by a
> single
> switch or module.  That combination apparently allows enough of the "local
> sense" current to charge up a cap in the CFL to a level where it can cause
> the bulb to glow, briefly.  This cycle repeats forever unless local sense
> is
> disabled but I've had hit and miss results with the mods to disable that
> function.  Disabling local sense, particularly for a table or floor lamp,
> is
> something I'd rather not do, anyway.  Another way to get around the
> flashing
> is to use the bulbs in a multiple bulb fixture.  In those cases, or in
> cases
> where there's some other load on the module, the CFL caps never seem to
> accumulate enough charge to flash.
>
> Another thing I am grateful for is that the newer CFL's seem more immune
> from the leakage/charge/flash cycle being sensed as a "local turn on
> request" and the module kicking back ON right after it's been turned off.
> If there was ever an event with a low spousal approval factor, it's lights
> turning themselves back on all by themselves, every time you send an OFF
> command.  Very bad.   Basement shoplites had to be rewired as a result
> with
> at least two lites per module.  Lost some "addressability" but gained lots
> and lots of SAF!
>
> I'm hoping that once LED or hi-efficiency incandescent arrive, that the
> problems I'm having with CFLs will go away.  I realize that LEDs will have
> some similar issues, being electrically quite different, at least in the
> "eyes" of the X-10 module circuits, from the tungsten bulbs they are
> replacing.  However, accommodating CFL bulbs and X-10 forced serious
> circuit
> changes (pulling neutrals to switches or in one case, running two new
> outdoor circuits) that would serve LEDs well.  The biggest issue is the
> difference in the way the X-10 "local sense" current leakage is handled by
> CFL and LED circuitry.  I've been reading elsewhere that people with
> lighted
> wall switches, automatic light timers and anything else that draws power
> to
> operate from the light circuit is subject to trouble.
>
> Someday, I'd like to be able to load a CFL or an LED lamp into the bedroom
> overhead fixture, the last place left were I haven't pulled a neutral and
> just have it work and not flash like a 70's disco ball.
>

Lots of good info.  Although I did end up with a few extras, I may have to
(belatedly) stock up on the nVision bulbs just to head off the problems.
But, hey, they are supposed to last 1000 years, right?

I get around the local sense problem by putting one incandescent bulb in
multiple-bulb installations.  Does sort of defeat some of the purpose, but
until I can learn of a reliable and safe alternative (some suggest just
putting an appropriately-sized resister in parallel, like what that extra
bulb accomplishes) I can deal with it.  I did see the fash in dual-bulb
fixtures and my porch 4 bulb arrangement.

Jim