Re: Need more input

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

RadioRA is the most expensive lighting solution of those you listed.
Reliability is a function of density. Lutron recommends a repeater evey 25'.

Insteon has good reliability as far as PLC control and is the least
expensive of those you mentioned. But there are also some quality control
(and design) problems so your choice probably depends on what the customer
is willing to spend and whether you want to avoid callbacks. My personal
experience with their ToggleLinc V2 switches has been good. I was not happy
with the first (pre-Insteon) Togglelinc version.

If price is not a factor and walls are still open, I would look at hardwired
(or combo) systems like...

     http://davehouston.org/hardwire.htm

Clipsal C-Bus is relatively new in the US but has a long history and
excellent reputation in Australia, NZ and Europe. I've played with some of
their wireless hardware and the quality is first class (as is the price).

You can use fiber or WiFi for communication between the locations but it may
take a bit of integration and some DIYing.

"ABLE_1" <royboynospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Marc, I assume that you did a double click on your message and it was sent
>twice...... 6 minutes apart????
>
>Dave - Bill - Marc,
>
>Thanks for the great replies.  Very informative.  First let me say that I am
>not a DIY.  I am a Security/Low Voltage installer.  So searching ebay will
>be a last resort.  I got pulled into this project by the on site electrician
>who knows that what the customer is asking is not in his field.
>
>What the customer is asking is un-clear at this time since the project is in
>the planning stages.
>
>Here are the answer to your questions.
>
>Location is Central Pennsylvania.  It gets cold here baby!!!
>
>From the pole (service feed) I will have two 3" conduits to the main house
>500'.  The head end will at the house.  However the Garage/Shop will be only
>75' and the Studio will be about 150' from that point.  But with the actual
>cable runs they will be 500' and 400' approximately from the head end.  It
>would have to be a star configuration but could be a daisy chain if
>necessary.
>
>My initial thoughts would have been to use the RS485 (copper cable)
>protected on each end from the house to both the Garage/Shop and the Studio.
>However now that I an hearing that it would be better to run with fiber and
>convert that does make more sense.   We do get some nasty lightning here at
>times.
>
>Again "marry" and "free" means as Mark as described.  I do know that a
>Security Equipment  and a HA manufacture are to be experts in their field
>and they should be kept separate.  However with the long distance
>communication of the RS485 does have and appeal with the ELK M1G in that it
>will be talking to both the security devices as well as the HA devices over
>the RS485.
>
>And then the HA devices can talk to each other but using the same RS485 or
>am I missing some point here???  At least that is what I was thinking.
>
>Or is it better said that the M1G will be handling the Automation thru the
>programming but using the HA equipment to do the work??
>
>This is the area that I am a bit foggy on.
>
>The other thing that I did not hear in the responses was the use of RadioRA
>as a HA for light control functions at each location.  Is that because no
>one has experience with RadioRA as a result of price or something else???
>
>Or is the suggestion of INSTEON because you like the line carrier
>functionality??  And speaking of line carrier I have to assume that with
>INSTEON the reliability if far better than the X-10 product line.  Is that
>correct??
>
>Again thanks for all the input.  Very helpful.
>
>Les
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>Looking for some input on home lighting automation systems and the
>> possible
>>>control thru a panel such as the Elk M1Gold.
>>>
>>>Project involves a Main House with Detached Garage/Shop(500') and
>>>Studio(400').
>>>
>>>Has anyone here actually done this??  If so what equipment did you use.
>>>        RadioRa??
>>>        X10??
>>>        UPB??
>>>        Insteon??
>>>        something else??
>>>
>>>I have a project coming up (just laid in plenty of conduit) and am
>> starting
>>>the preliminary investigation on equipment.
>>
>> As Bill Kearney suggests, the best/most robust single transmission medium
>> is fiber. I'd suggest pulling terminated SC-SC fiber cable first. The
>> connectors are large compared to the cable diameter and it is not
>> practical
>> for the typical DIY home-owner to terminate fiber. So get pre-terminated
>> fiber pulled and tested. Search eBay for " SC-SC" for many options at
>> nickels on the dollar. Too long -- even *way* too long -- is OK if you
>> have
>> a place to store the still-connected, unused cable. You can leave it on
>> the
>> spool or not.
>>
>>>If anyone has does something as above how did it go.  Painful or not??
>>
>> My conversion to fiber has (knock on wood) eliminated the repeated,
>> expensive, time-consuming, exasperating (i.e., "painful" ) damage from
>> electrical transients.
>>
>>>Is it better to marry(interface) this equipment or better to keep free
>>>standing??
>>
>> In your description of "this equipment" in the paragraphs above, you seem
>> to mention only lighting. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that you will
>> eventually want other capabilities.
>>
>>>Suggestions of alternatives or thoughts pro and con.
>>
>> At the end of the fiber at the remote location, I have an ethernet hub and
>> eight-channel, COMTROL ethernet-to-RS-232/485 converter. (eBay is also
>> your
>> friend here).
>>
>> With respect to the non-lighting components, I'd start by seeing what I
>> could accomplish with this capability, recognizing that the
>> ethernet-to-serial converter requires a PC running Microsoft or Linux or
>> Unix operating system.
>>
>> Your description of "Married" and "Free", and the responses by others
>> implies that these are Either/Or propositions. They are not in my
>> experience. I use the term "federated" to describe a HA system that has
>> components that can act autonomously ("free")  _and_ be interconnected
>> ("married" ) via one or more PC's.
>>
>> Some examples in use in our home and years of operation include:
>>
>> -- Napco security system (~12 years autonomous-only followed by
>>          9 years federated)
>> -- Elk Magic Module MM443s ( 9 years federated)
>> -- Elk M1G ( federated 1.5 years in transition)
>> -- Slinke IR  (federated 9 years)
>> -- Aprilaire/Enerzone thermostats ( ~ 8 years federated)
>>
>> The first four devices also have at least some X-10
>> capability/possibilities.  I have used X-10, INSTEON and hardwired
>> lighting
>> control in various standard and home-brew configuration. I can conceive of
>> circumstances where X-10 might be a fall-back alternative for inexpensive
>> lighting control at the remote location. But that's not where I'd start.
>>
>> To determine whether INSTEON ( which appears to many folks including me to
>> be the most cost-effective automated lighting system alternative) would
>> work for you, consider buying an
>>
>> INSTEON RemoteLinc Starter Kit, Black INSTEON
>> http://www.smarthome.com/2490rbk.html for $129
>>
>> and testing its performance your particular wiring and circumstances. Even
>> if you decide to go with another lighting technology, this RF remote kit
>> will be useful. Put one 2443 RF-to-powerline link and one 2456D3 lamp
>> module at each location on the same AC phase. At a distance of 500 feet,
>> actual data transmission from the house to the remote location should/will
>> be over the powerline, not via RF.
>>
>> (I have about 50 INSTEON devices installed including each of the
>> components
>> in this kit and can, with a few provisos/observations recommend them.)
>>
>> Note that a simple INSTEON system would not use the fiber that I
>> recommended at the beginning of the post. But do consider installing the
>> fiber anyway ;-) in part because once the bugs are out of the dependable
>> implementation of multiple RS-232 ->INSTEON controllers, one could have
>> one
>> controller at the house and another at the remote location and communicate
>> using the fiber ->ethernet ->RS-xxx setup.
>>
>> HTH ... Marc
>>
>> Marc_F_Hult
>> www.ECOntrol.org
>


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