Re: Refrigerator monitor ideas?

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

> > I'm always astounded at how many purely technical questions get
responses
> > that either end up as lifestyle critiques or miss the point of the
> original
> > post completely.  This is how *I* choose to spend my time.  It really
> > shouldn't become a subject in a purely technical request for input and
> > ideas.
>
> Oh give it a rest already.

Hey, I didn't bring it up.  I worry when *you* worry about how *I* spend
*my* time more than *I* do.  I only mentioned it because how I spent my time
also seemed to be an issue when I discussed why I was willing to stick with
X-10.  (-:

> > My choices appear to be:
> > 1) to eliminate the dog hair that eventually clogs the drain tube,
>
> Do a better job of keeping your house clean.  Avoid the crud getting in
> their entirely.  What better non-technical solution could be devised to
> stave off the dirt collecing in the first place?  Or altering the drain
> setup such that it better handles the crud.
>
> Frankly I'd just get rid of the dog and solve the whole problem.

I'll deal with those comments separately.  For now, I can assure you it
ain't happening.

> > My wattmeter tells me it draws 112 watts when running.
>
> If you're as suspicious as you claim to be then you wouldn't trust that
> meter.

I don't.  I was *very* suspicious of that reading being a "full swing"
operational wattage.  But I didn't say that represented anything but a
single reading of an unknown state.  I've also seen readings of 62 watts and
275 watts since beginning this thread so there may be more that I haven't
seen yet.  I've put the wattmeter in the kWh mode, so by morning I'll
probably have a pretty good idea of what it costs to run in the *very cold*
wintertime, on average.

What I don't know is how much of that energy is not purely waste but is
contributing to warming the house.  Nor do I have any way of knowing what
the total cost of ownership and operation for a new box will be.  But I've
heard enough stories like Dan's to know that total cost of ownership is
likely to be a lot higher than most people would expect based solely on
energy efficiency cost benefit tables.  Especially those prepared by
entities with vested interests.

I also know that this humble old Westie reefer tolerates a very wide swing
of temperatures and humidities in the basement while maintaining a
remarkably stable internal temperature.  If I wasn't such a lazy SOB, I
would just inspect and clean more it often now that I know there's a dog
hair issue.  Since the dogs have increased the airborne debris load for
everything that "aspirates" I've had to bump the inspection schedules of all
items that have fans or passive cooling ports.  If I had a sensor, I
wouldn't have been caught by surprise this last time.

> > One reason I am happy to keep this old basement unit running is that
stuff
> > made 30 years ago was made with lots of metal in the mechanicals and not
> > with cheap plastic that becomes brittle over time.
> >
> > The dogs don't seem to mind that the plastic interior is cracked.
>
> I thought you were claiming in the good old days they made stuff that
didn't
> crack?

Bill, you need to read more carefully before you fire off a comment.  I
clearly said "lots of metal in the MECHANICALS."   Plastic shelves that
cracked can be glued.  Plastic cams or gears that crack bring down the
entire system.  A 17' unit made out of stainless steel would weight about
ton and cost $5000.  (-:  I often find myself breaking down  modern
appliances and thinking "I wouldn't have made *that* part out of plastic."
I understand why the refrigerator shell has to be plastic, but when I see
plastic parts near heat sources I know there's going to be trouble. It seems
as if designers 30 or 40 years ago built things to last as long as they
could.  Now, they seem to build things to last at least one year, but no
more than ten.  That experience contributes to my reluctance to replace new
for old.

> > But all that's pretty much irrelevant to the question I was asking:  I
> want
> > a simple way to be warned when the drain tube connector clogs with dog
> hair
> > and dust.  That's a pretty simple *technical* request.  It might even
> > produce a useful idea for others who've had drain tube clogs even in the
> > high efficiency, $1000 boxes.  My furnace filter whistles when it gets
> > clogged.  I want my refrigerator condensate "filter" to chirp or close a
> set
> > of contacts when *it* is clogged.
>
> Your furnace can do this because it's already moving air and can detect
the
> blockage.  A passive drain doesn't afford the same option.  I think Bass
> made a good suggestion, a pair of moisture sensors, one at the top and the
> other at the bottom of the drain tube.  If there's water at the top and
not
> at the bottom then you've got a problem.

That might work, but it would require careful analysis and sensor placement
to make sure that the low flow trickling didn't cause bad readings.

> And if the water's below a certain
> temperature it'd be a sign there's possible freezing developing.  Is water
> not moving or is it too cold?  If either of those conditions is true then
> you'd got a problem.  I'd think a threshold on the temperature could
> likewise be an early warning indicator but then I don't know how fast it
> freezes up.

Yes, I agree with the problems you've noted with detecting flow in a small
gravity fed system.  The big problem with many of the suggestions is that
I'd have to simulate the freeze-up events to make sure I was reading the
probes and their meaning correctly.  As Bill F. noted, periodic inspection
would consume far less time and effort since once every 9 months should do
it.  I do like the idea of monitoring the temperature of "reference" items
in both the freezer and the refrigerator and will be implementing that as
soon as I figure out the best way to run the wires and place the sensors.

> Yeah, there's probably a grain of truth to the notion of continuing to use
> an existing device instead of a new one.  But I doubt it.  Besides, if you
> keep using that same one you're depriving the industries and all their
> employees of work.  Gotta keep those wheels turning, right?  <grin>

It's a very hard equation to solve because you can keep finding factors that
need optimizing, even if it's the well-being of appliance store employees
and junkyard owners.  (-:

--
Bobby G.