Re: Smoke alarms (was Re: For Graham, Rober, and Coppernob)

[Frank Olson <Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

robertlbass@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>NFPA 72-2002 11.7.6.7  Installations that include the connection of
>>>single- or multiple-station alarms with other input or output devices,
>>>such as but not limited to relay modules, remote signaling devices, phone
>>>dialers, security panels, heat detectors, and manual pull stations, shall
>>>be permitted, providing that an open or short circuit of the wiring
>>>leading to these input or output devices does not prevent normal operation
>>>of the single- or multiple-station alarm.
>
>
> The problem which Mr. Olson is ignoring (and I must conclude that he
> does so deliberately as he has had ample time to find the US code and
> knows full well what he advocates is against it) is that the devices
> MUST be listed for use with a fire alarm.

IT'S NOT A FIRE ALARM SYSTEM!!!!!!


> Olson can claim that a
> residential alarm with smoke detectors connected, installed by a DIYer
> does not constitute a fire alarm but he is wrong.

A residential burg/security panel *of any kind* is not considered a fire
alarm *system*.  A fire alarm panel cannot be considered a burg/security
system.  They are completely separate *systems*.  The definition of a
fire alarm system makes *no provision* (or allowance) for
interconnection of security related components (door contacts, motion
sensors, etc.).  A DIYer *CANNOT* install a fire alarm *system*.  In
most States and Provinces you need a qualified electrican (or installer)
to do so.


> There is simply no
> waiver of self-installed systems in code.  There is also no waicver of
> the requirement that componentys be "listed for the purpose" by the
> manufacturer in the snipet he quoted above.

Post the relevant section of the code that "magically" transforms a
burg/security system into a fire alarm system.  There is none.  The
definition of a "fire alarm system" doesn't count and won't support your
claim.  Interconnecting your home's smoke alarms to an auto dialer or
security panel *is allowed*, Robert, as long as you use the relay that's
listed for use with the particular smoke alarms you have.  Furthermore,
such interconnection *DOES NOT* constitute a fire alarm *system* by any
stretch of your imagination and does NOT make it subject to the
provisions under NFPA 72 for listed fire alarm systems.


>
> As to the forum you mention, comments made there are (like those here)
> mostly supposition.  If you want the truth of thge matter, ask your
> local inspector.  He has the final say on the matter.  In fact, as the
> "authority having jurisdiction" (AHJ), he is the arbiter of the
> interpretation and application of the code.

Correct.  And no AHJ would care what you hooked up to your premises
burg/security panel.  The only time he would is if you decided to hook
up your commercial fire alarm system to a burg/security panel.  In this
instance, the communicator must meet the requirements stipulated under
NFPA 72.


>
> Please note that Mr. Olson lives in Canada and, based upon his many
> stories in a certain other newsgroup, he has never worked in the US.

Check.  And based on the many stories you've posted in a certain other
newsgroup, you've never worked in the US either.  ;-)


> He has no experience dealing with AHJ's or, for that matter, code in
> the US.

Fat lot you know.


> If readers are looking for information on installing or
> modifying smoke detection systems anywhere in the USA, I strongly
> advise they take his advice with a large grain of salt.

That's funny.  I was going to say the exact same thing about you.