Re: Cheap network dvr 4-8ch

["Bob La Londe" <none@xxxxxxxxxx>]

"Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1d58235d-5180-4d12-96d2-69d28032d0d9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:15:31 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> "Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:83231c55-42fb-4268-8140-5cfd1dcb0b1e@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > On
>> Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:01:02 PM UTC-5, DS wrote: >> Yes..i mean
>> model to recommend..not site > > I think what Bob was trying to say is
>> .... I don't think anyone here would > know which "cheap" unit to
>> recommend. We're all professional installers > and anything we use in not
>> going to be cheap. We have to guarantee and > support the equipment that
>> we install and going back to a job to repair or > replace an item because
>> we used a cheap piece of equipment is not > something we do. It's not
>> profitable and it makes you look bad. All I can > say is, Google the part
>> that you're looking for and buy the least > expensive one. There's no
>> such thing as good and cheap in the same > product. > > My suggestion (?)
>> Shop around for the product you want. Find the high > price. Find the low
>> price. Buy something in the middle. Be aware of > warranty, shipping and
>> return policies and availability of technical > assistance. You can look
>> at the product lines of Speco Technologies, > Everfocus, Dedicated Micro
>> and Digimerge. I'm not sure if their equipment > is available for you to
>> buy direct but these are some of the popular > DVR/NVR manufacturers that
>> installers use. They're not cheap and will > likely not talk to an end
>> user should you have technical questions. > > Most of the cheap products
>> come directly from Korea, China, Tiwan etc. > They claim to do all the
>> things the products from the above manufactureres > do but..........
>> there is no or inadequate support, it's highly likely > that they will
>> not be available in the future, it is difficult to get > anything
>> repaired because there are no repair or mfg facilities here in > the US
>> aaannnnd ...........you can't understand what the hell they're > saying
>> when you call and ask for information on their product or need >
>> technical assistance. > > You ask me ..... How do I know all this? > Well
>> ...because ONCE ..... Just ONCE, mind you .... I bought one and I'll >
>> never do it again. I have used mostly Dedicated Micros for DVRs for a
>> number of years now. I do have a Pelco unit in service, and while it was
>> a pain to setup it has remained in service for quite a long time. I setup
>> some Falcon DVRs that a customer bought from somebody else and they were
>> a pain in the wazoo needing constant tweaking and service. I recently
>> quoted some DigiMerge stuff, and I have one on the shelf awaiting an
>> install, but I have not installed on yet. I've played with several DVR PC
>> cards, and they are ok at best. Even the Geo Vision some guys like didn't
>> impress me all that much.
>
> I've been using Speco for the most part with a couple of tries with others
> but it's a case of ... Even though I think the Speco's that I'm using
> could be easier to set up for remote viewing, I'm thinking that if I try
> another brand I'm just going to have to learn another whole process. So
> it's just "stickin with the problem I'm familiar with rather than dealing
> with one I'm not"
>
> My next foray is trying some IP cameras. But I'm not going to go out and
> sell anything until I can set one up with an NVR first. I never go through
> the learning curve on the job. So it's just a matter of finding time to
> invest in a day to learn what the details are. I don't have any doubt that
> I'll be able to figure it out but mainly I want to be able to find out
> comparisons between analog and IP cameras. For instance, I KNOW what a
> varifocal lens will do on an analog camera under given conditions but I
> don't have that first hand and similar experience with IP camers.
> I just have to work with it for a day or so ..... I don't like
> dissapointing surprises on a job after I've made assumptions on what a
> piece of equipment will do. I'm too freekin picky and I don't ever put my
> self in a position of not having an answer for my clients or implying
> something that I can't deliver because I didn't know the product well
> enough.
>
> I'm figuring that I might set up a networked analog camera and an IP
> camera at my home and view them on my laptop to up-sell to IP. It's hard
> to explain to a potential client just how much better the IP picture is
> ...... without a picture.


Jim,

I have done quite a bit of research on IP cameras and NVRs recently.  The
big thing if the customer is going to max out their number of camera
licenses over time going into an NVR is that IT HAS TO BE ITS OWN NETWORK.

I did some calculating using H.264 with good resolution and good frame
rates.  You can very quickly put a serious load on the bandwidth of a
network.  IP cameras got popular with IT techs because they could slap one
on their network and be up and running in minutes.  They put in a POE
injector or on a more advanced switch just configure the port for POE and
the don't even have to run any wire if the site was wired to modern
standards with redundant wire.  Literally.  Up and running in minutes.
Since many IP cameras have onboard storage or the option for onboard storage
and they never even bothered with any worries... until they started getting
10-15-20 cameras on their network and they started streaming all of them to
a station for a security guard, operations manager, etc.  For one or two
cameras that are acting as their own DVR they put nearly no load on the
network.  Only when they are being checked.  The onboard storage can be good
for a couple days to a month or more depending on the capabilities of the
camera, setup, and the storage capacity onboard.  Storage affects price, and
as rarely as customers check that a single main recorder actually works,
they will never individually check every single standalone camera for
complete operation.

The big advantage to some of the IP cameras out there is the resolution
allows them to do things we have been telling customers is impossible for
the last 15-20 years.  A single 3 megapixel IP camera can cover all 4 lanes
of 2 gas pump islands  AND  allow them to expand an image and read a license
plate.  Ok, its not the same as they do on NCIS where they take a blurry
image of a city block and recognize somebody from their poorly lit
reflection in a car window, but it's a lot better than we have become
accustomed to over the years.  An order of magnitude better.  Cameras with 2
megapixel resolution are common and 3 megapixel or greater with all the IR,
weatherproof, vandal resistant, and other features we have grown to use are
available.

Now back to NVRs.  This last point of paragraph two above alone is an
argument for a centralized storage system.  "They will never individually
check every single standalone camera for complete operation."  A good NVR
has two NICs.  One to go to the clients existing network, and one to go to a
separate network switch.  Preferably with built in POE.  They do not have to
run all new network cable.  Anyplace they have an available network cable
they can just change the patch cable over to the switch managed by the NVR.
The cameras can still have onboard storage as backup set as FIFO on an SD
card or other internal media, but the NVR is the work horse of the system,
and if properly setup puts very minimal load on the customer network.  Only
when streaming video to a client work station, sending alerts, or backing up
data to another storage center.  Even then the load is equivalent to only
one or two cameras per client connected.  In addition an NVR has the ability
to manage load on a per camera basis.  One with more activity will refresh
more often then one with little or no activity.  This maximizes the use of
data storage over cameras with internal storage.

Bob