Re: Complicated Napco MA2600 Internals Issue

[Frank Olson <Use-the-email-links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Katie Wasserman wrote:
> Jim,
>
> When I applied DC power to the battery terminals, I used real DC for
> my test -- I just used the backup battery!  No need to make up a real,
> filtered and regulated supply for this quick test.
>
> Yes you can indeed  put 16V DC to the AC input terminals, and that
> will work fine (you need 16 volts or so because the system really runs
> at 14 volts, the level set by the regulator after the full-wave bridge
> that the AC input feeds into).  I also changed the programming to
> ignore the AC power failure, as you suggested.  But the problem is
> still that the system won't let you arm it if there's isn't a backup
> battery in place and using just the backup battery for startup sets
> off the alarm.
>
>
> You really do need to sequence the startup by feeding power to the AC
> input (even if you put DC there) followed by 12VDC to the backup
> battery terminals some 5 seconds later (after the click that you
> mentioned).  If you feed power to the backup battery terminals before
> the 5 seconds have elapsed (but after the AC input has been applied)
> the alarm will trigger but reset itself once the 5 second click goes
> off.
>
> Your aux relay delay idea doesn't really help since you need to wait
> for the 5 second click and that seems to be coming from a relay in the
> middle of the panel -- not accessible.  (The aux relay click happens
> instantly after AC is applied and you do get the very quick beep that
> you mentioned most of the time.)  So I'm left with the original idea
> of just using a fixed 10 second or so delay after applying AC before
> connecting the backup battery.  I may end up doing exactly that, but
> for now I'm going to see if I can live with the bypass capacitor
> solution.  I might try to enhance this some by bypassing at both ends
> of the keypad wire runs.
>
> -Katie
>
>
> On Mar 1, 11:20 pm, "Jim" <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Mar 1, 10:12?pm, "Katie Wasserman" <katie10...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Russ, Thanks for the suggestion and ARRL pointer but rewiring isn't an
>>> easy option.
>>> But I did try GQC's idea of using bypass capacitors on all the lines
>>> and that made a huge different, especially on the keypad lines, noise
>>> dropped by almost 15db. ?All of the noise is/was coming from the alarm
>>> wiring, running running on the battery alone gives the same noise
>>> level, so the AC line choke wasn't needed.
>>> Jim, your idea of running off the battery power feed only doesn't
>>> work. ?The system needs the AC power to start up or it triggers the
>>> alarm, there seems to be no way around this. ?Putting in a fake
>>> battery using a capacitor discharging through a diode and charging
>>> through a parallel resistor didn't work either. ?The system ?does a 1
>>> second test using the battery about 1 minute after AC startup, that's
>>> how it determines if the battery is good. ?After that point it seems
>>> to do a battery check each time the system is armed. So you really do
>>> need to have a real battery in there (or a giant capacitor) to make
>>> this alarm function.
>>> Thanks to everyone for you help on this.
>>> 73,
>>> Kaite (k1kdx actually k1kdx/ae)
>>> On Mar 1, 9:28 pm, "Russell Brill" <russwbr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> "Katie Wasserman" <katie10...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:1172612240.730476.162430@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Jim,
>>>>> That's a great idea and I do have full access to the programming.
>>>>> Thanks!!!
>>>>> -Katie
>>>> Katie,
>> Did you try to apply 12VDC to one of the AC terminals?
>>
>> I've got a few Napco and other manufacturers systems running on 12VDC
>> only on boat alarms. Never used a 2600 for this application though.
>> Applying 12VDC to one of the AC terminals has worked for me as far as
>> fooling the system into thinking AC was applied. When the power is
>> removed from these units and restored, there is no indication of AC
>> power loss or low battery. I have no idea whether running it this way
>> will reduce the RF emissions.
>>
>> My original suggestion to you about powering the unit this way,  was
>> following up on your method of wanting to shut the system down while
>> you were transmitting. I still didn't check the installation
>> instructions but did you investigate whether you can program the panel
>> to ignore an AC power loss?
>>
>> Another thought occured to me also, regarding the "sequencing" of the
>> application of AC and DC. If I remember correctly ( ie. I could be
>> wrong) when you power up the panel, there is a momentary "blip" on the
>> output of the siren. This might mean that the Aux relays are being
>> momentarily "pulsed" too. You may be able to utilize this momentary
>> closure of the Aux contacts to pic another relay that would lock in.
>> This relays contacts hooked in series with the positive lead of the
>> battery, could then apply the DC voltage a split second after AC is
>> applied.- Hide quoted text -



Hi Katie:

You're "racking" your brains for a solution and IMHO just spinning your
wheels.  Change out the panel and keypads.  It's time to retire that old
Napco job.  Send it to Jim Rojas (http://www.tech-man.com).  I'm sure
he'll find someone "in need" for parts.  :-)