Re: Complicated Napco MA2600 Internals Issue

["Katie Wasserman" <katie10543@xxxxxxxxx>]

Jim,

When I applied DC power to the battery terminals, I used real DC for
my test -- I just used the backup battery!  No need to make up a real,
filtered and regulated supply for this quick test.

Yes you can indeed  put 16V DC to the AC input terminals, and that
will work fine (you need 16 volts or so because the system really runs
at 14 volts, the level set by the regulator after the full-wave bridge
that the AC input feeds into).  I also changed the programming to
ignore the AC power failure, as you suggested.  But the problem is
still that the system won't let you arm it if there's isn't a backup
battery in place and using just the backup battery for startup sets
off the alarm.


You really do need to sequence the startup by feeding power to the AC
input (even if you put DC there) followed by 12VDC to the backup
battery terminals some 5 seconds later (after the click that you
mentioned).  If you feed power to the backup battery terminals before
the 5 seconds have elapsed (but after the AC input has been applied)
the alarm will trigger but reset itself once the 5 second click goes
off.

Your aux relay delay idea doesn't really help since you need to wait
for the 5 second click and that seems to be coming from a relay in the
middle of the panel -- not accessible.  (The aux relay click happens
instantly after AC is applied and you do get the very quick beep that
you mentioned most of the time.)  So I'm left with the original idea
of just using a fixed 10 second or so delay after applying AC before
connecting the backup battery.  I may end up doing exactly that, but
for now I'm going to see if I can live with the bypass capacitor
solution.  I might try to enhance this some by bypassing at both ends
of the keypad wire runs.

-Katie


On Mar 1, 11:20 pm, "Jim" <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 10:12?pm, "Katie Wasserman" <katie10...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Russ, Thanks for the suggestion and ARRL pointer but rewiring isn't an
> > easy option.
>
> > But I did try GQC's idea of using bypass capacitors on all the lines
> > and that made a huge different, especially on the keypad lines, noise
> > dropped by almost 15db. ?All of the noise is/was coming from the alarm
> > wiring, running running on the battery alone gives the same noise
> > level, so the AC line choke wasn't needed.
>
> > Jim, your idea of running off the battery power feed only doesn't
> > work. ?The system needs the AC power to start up or it triggers the
> > alarm, there seems to be no way around this. ?Putting in a fake
> > battery using a capacitor discharging through a diode and charging
> > through a parallel resistor didn't work either. ?The system ?does a 1
> > second test using the battery about 1 minute after AC startup, that's
> > how it determines if the battery is good. ?After that point it seems
> > to do a battery check each time the system is armed. So you really do
> > need to have a real battery in there (or a giant capacitor) to make
> > this alarm function.
>
> > Thanks to everyone for you help on this.
>
> > 73,
> > Kaite (k1kdx actually k1kdx/ae)
>
> > On Mar 1, 9:28 pm, "Russell Brill" <russwbr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > "Katie Wasserman" <katie10...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172612240.730476.162430@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Jim,
>
> > > > That's a great idea and I do have full access to the programming.
>
> > > > Thanks!!!
>
> > > > -Katie
>
> > > Katie,
>
> Did you try to apply 12VDC to one of the AC terminals?
>
> I've got a few Napco and other manufacturers systems running on 12VDC
> only on boat alarms. Never used a 2600 for this application though.
> Applying 12VDC to one of the AC terminals has worked for me as far as
> fooling the system into thinking AC was applied. When the power is
> removed from these units and restored, there is no indication of AC
> power loss or low battery. I have no idea whether running it this way
> will reduce the RF emissions.
>
> My original suggestion to you about powering the unit this way,  was
> following up on your method of wanting to shut the system down while
> you were transmitting. I still didn't check the installation
> instructions but did you investigate whether you can program the panel
> to ignore an AC power loss?
>
> Another thought occured to me also, regarding the "sequencing" of the
> application of AC and DC. If I remember correctly ( ie. I could be
> wrong) when you power up the panel, there is a momentary "blip" on the
> output of the siren. This might mean that the Aux relays are being
> momentarily "pulsed" too. You may be able to utilize this momentary
> closure of the Aux contacts to pic another relay that would lock in.
> This relays contacts hooked in series with the positive lead of the
> battery, could then apply the DC voltage a split second after AC is
> applied.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -