Re: Quality Ademco Engineering

["Roland Moore" <roland@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Wonder how many "Beta" products are just sitting around in stock rooms and
> basements.

Okay, so now you want them all back?

 >I drive to
> jobsites and training appointments every weekday, typically 4 days (and
> nights) out each week and the guys that put this stuff in on the vast
> majority have no previous training or even entry level education to
> prepare them for the job. The I read here how it is the manufacturer's
> fault.

As long as any manufacturer makes their products available through
distribution, then the trunk slammer headaches you describe are going to be
the result. If you want to see the quality of techs using your brand
improve, there are many things you could do on your end. Some companies like
Bosch, DMP, Verint, (to name just a few) refuse to sell their product to
anyone that has not PASSED (not just attended) a training course on the
product. Another technique used by companies that have product available
through distribution (like American Dynamics) is to offer a better discount
level on the product to companies that send their employees to training. I
know that you have training, I have not been to effective Honeywell Security
training; comparing it to other vendor's training. In many cases the
training seemed far more sales oriented than technical. There are more ways
than these to help solve the tech problem for sure, but until I see at least
ONE being tried by your company I find it hard to believe Honeywell Security
is being  proactive or even serious about your complaints. The fear of
declining sales or market share erosion seems to stop any real action on
addressing the problem. To me this problem you describe remains firmly the
manufacturer's fault. Reason? NOT ALL MANUFACTURERS HAVE THIS PROBLEM. ONLY
THE ONES THAT CATER TO THE TRUNK SLAMMER MARKET DO,  LIKE HONEYWELL SECURITY
AND DSC.

"Seccon1" <seccon1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:W1yUh.52$013.32@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Please see compatible list/ Non compatible list on web link My Webtech at
> the Honeywell Security website.
>
> Nomen is wrong, it is all there in a list, Please use it as it was put
> there for you.
>
> as to the recall we actually had a field fix but did not like trusting it
> to field personnel so we changed the boards.
> Remember please we did not sun set the analog service, your Congress did.
> And to help with the problem with offer a rebate for the old units as well
> as competitive products
>
> It may interest you to know that on a national Beta test that ended 2
> weeks ago, another GSM product was shipped to dealers all over the
> country. Of the 75 units shipped, less than half were installed and
> registered as the dealers agreed they would.
>
> Wonder how many "Beta" products are just sitting around in stock rooms and
> basements.
>
> But then everyone wants it sooner, and they do not want any problems once
> they get it.
>
> I guess Nomen flipped my switch as every day I and my team members receive
> calls from many folks that don't care enough to even read a manual and
> feel they are just entitled to be walked through whatever, and then want
> to abuse us when lack of preparation on their part causes an issue. I
> drive to jobsites and training appointments every weekday, typically 4
> days (and nights) out each week and the guys that put this stuff in on the
> vast majority have no previous training or even entry level education to
> prepare them for the job. The I read here how it is the manufacturer's
> fault.
>
> Guess I will catch some grief for responding but hey, I have writen the
> truth about how I feel.
>
>
>
>
> "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:e17e5a599bf57c98f4707b18dcc902d9@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>>As far as I know the XMP wouldn't work with either 6139 or 6160 anyway.
>>>And
>>>I don't consider that much of an oops when the vast majority of the later
>>>stuff will, I've run into maybe 1 XMPT2's in my life.
>>
>> The 4140XMPT2 was the predecessor of the Vista 50.  There are lots of
>> them
>> in the field.  From what J. Barnes says, the 6160 doesn't work with the
>> Vista 50 either.  They work fine with a 6139.
>>
>> The 6139 keypads work fine with the 4140XMP panels.  They also work with
>> the Vista 40.  I'm guessing neither one works with the 6160.
>>
>> I have two complaints here.  First, backward compatibility is a pretty
>> obvious thing to do.  But my main bitch is, none of these problems are
>> mentioned in the instructions.  You don't find out about them until it's
>> time to replace a keypad, and then, oh shit, they gave me a bad keypad.
>> Oh
>> no they idn't, the keypad is fine.
>>
>> Make that three complaints.  The fine engineering staff at Ademco still
>> hasn't figured out a way to copy a program from an older panel type to a
>> newer panel type.  So when you have to replace that bad keypad with a
>> 6160,
>> you find that means you get to replace the panel too, and you have to
>> program the new panel from scratch.   None of the program information
>> from
>> that XMPT2 can be copied to the new Vista 50P you have to install, even
>> though the programs are very similar.
>>
>> How to waste an entire day on what was supposed to be replacing a bad
>> keypad.
>>
>
>