Re: Quick opinion poll regarding Bass' multiple "PR" posts

[Frank Olson <Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Allan Waghalter wrote:
> I really have no problem with Robert and all of his shenanigans.  I have
> finally realized that the man has a great sense of humor, albeit sick humor
> on occasions.   He knows what he is doing!  He does not attack or flame
> those who have not attacked him.... although I get burned occasionally too.
> Roberts posture is a defensive one.  He is out to win!  If you attack him,
> you are open game for any retaliation.  He will hit back with all he's got.
> The lesson to be learned is not to attack him!

Frank (FIRETEK) didn't attack him.  He simply commented on the FAQ.  I
decided to post the orignating message for the Group.  I don't see where
it says you can advertise to end users here anywhere.  If we allow one
to do it, we invite more.  The "PR" posts should be limited to a single
item and one that has relevance to the *industry*.  A case in point is
ELK Products finally winning UL/ULC approvals.


>
> As for the product post.... he warned us in advance that he was going to do
> it.

That's no excuse.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the purpose for
this group.  If we allow one spammer to get away with it, there will be
more.  I don't come here to read spam.


> While I just deleted them in mass, I understood why he posted them.

I do to.  What I don't understand is the other long off-topic post he
repeated also.  The reason he posted them though, Alan, has nothing to
do with drumming up business or search engine positioning.  He wants to
ensure the post from Bob Worthy about ADI and Honeywell's cease and
desist orders get bumped off.


> By
> getting all of those products into the Google Search Engine, anyone looking
> for almost anything will be directed to his web site.

This has nothing to do with search engine ranking.  You don't know how
Google works.  I sat with one of their executives at a Intel Channel
Conference luncheon a while back.  Compare the rankings between
alarmsuperstore and bassburglaralarms.  Mike has achieved similar
positioning without resorting to spamming our Group (or another).


> As for the FAQ, none
> of us ever signed up agreeing to follow that long obsolete document.  The
> FAQ is just like homeowner deed restrictions.  If they are not strictly
> enforced, then they become non-enforceable in a court of law.

The FAQ isn't enforceable at all.  We adhere to Group "ethics".  Steve
said it best:

"As this is an un-moderated newsgroup we are at the mercy of those who
choose to post into the group. A way to recognize those who are actually
"Supporting Members" of the group was proposed as a means of identifying
just who is trying to help and who is in it for themselves. Whether or
not someone is a supporting member is not a declaration by anyone but a
way that we can tell if each of us meets these criterea in our own mind."

I have in the past been diverted from "the Creed" by Robert's and Mike's
shenanigans.  I won't allow that again.


> I have served
> on my homeowners board for about 20 years and we never let our guard down on
> violations.  We have even gone to the extreme of hiring a management firm to
> do nothing but look for violations, write letters and sue for correction if
> necessary.  We have done no such thing here, so if the FAQ ever was "Law",
> it isn't now.  Reichman has recently posted that the FAQ was his
> suggestion... it was never formalized.  I am glad he did what he did because
> it gave us an open forum for the industry.


It's an "open forum for the industry".  It doesn't mean you can spam the
group with advertising and sales pitches.



> I have made many friends from
> this news group and received much technical assistance for which I am
> appreciative and grateful.

So have I.


>
> As for his business problems, BBB, complaint letters, etc.  Having been in
> multiple businesses over the years I have learned that you can't please all
> of the people all of the time.  I do my best, but I still may run afoul of a
> customer from time to time.  While I certainly don't agree with his not
> responding to the complaints with the BBB it is certainly his prerogative.
> I see nothing to be gained by not resolving the issues, even if he is 100%
> in the right, which he probably isn't.  I would rather satisfy almost any
> demand from a customer to keep them on-line with me than risk creating an
> enemy that will talked against me and hurt my reputation.

I'm with you on this.  Our customer service is second to none.  The
line-up for the counter is frequently around the block.  ;-)


>
> As for the personal problems, legal, marital, etc he has had, leave them
> alone!  He has more than paid the price for his transgressions.

Has he??  He continues to "transgress".  He has yet to offer an apology
to the other Frank that posts here.  He's away until Tuesday.  When he
comes back, I'll have a whole "new toy" to fly around in...  :-)


> There is
> nothing to be gained by constantly bringing up his past.  I would hate to
> have someone reminding me of any mistakes I made in the past every time I
> show my face!

Exactly.  Remember the truce a few years ago??  I was still the
"freshman" around here.  What broke it??


> I don't generally quote scripture, but in John 8 5-8, Jesus
> defends a woman convicted of prostitution by saying, "If any of you is
> without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

It's sort of funny you should bring that particular verse up...
Consider many here consider Bass is "prostituting" himself in the group...


> When my car
> needs repair, I don't care that the mechanic served time in jail.  I just
> want him to be able to fix my car.  I don't want the phone man or security
> man to be a Felon, but if he doesn't enter my house, then I don't care.

What security or phone man wouldn't enter your house??  I've never met
one with tele-kinetic powers, but that would be a major plus.  You could
install without ever leaving the van.


> When
> someone orders a DIY system from Robert, they don't care that his may have
> had a legal problem in the past, only that he can supply them with a panel
> and sensors to do the job without having to go to Radio Shack.  We can't
> really judge his actions not having walked in his shoes!

I've seen Robert run roughshod over a number of individuals here.  The
latest one is FIRETEK and I *still* don't think he deserved it.  He
never once badmouthed Robert.  I figured his criticism was pretty darn
constructive if you ask me...


>
> All flame wars, fights, disagreements and problems aside, Robert
> consistently takes his time to answer almost any technical question that is
> asked and generally does it very completely!  Yes, he may miss the mark
> sometimes, but haven't we all done that from time to time?  There are
> probably hundreds or thousands of people who either contribute or lurk on
> our news group.  I know the local wholesalers read the postings and I know
> that management of the major manufacturers read the newsgroup.  They
> generally don't post because they don't want to become an on-line tech
> support center, but they lurk to keep a pulse on the industry and their
> positions within it and the activities of their competitors.   Yet, there
> are only a few people who want to post RLB's past every time he answers a
> question and/or offers to supply product.  I know that you don't like him
> because of  attacks he made upon you, but he most likely didn't make the
> first punch.

I know for a fact the first punch I ever threw was on his recent
"return" to the Group.  Jack S. was perfectly right.  I was way out of
line.  He mentioned something like I was on him "like a duck on a junebug".


>
> Robert is so high profile, that if he were doing anything illegal, he would
> have been shut down a long time ago.

I understand a number of individuals in Florida are seeing to that as we
speak.


? In the interest of all, I would prefer
> to see all of us just get along in peace and harmony and share technical
> information.

You're preaching to the choir.  There's only a very few discordant
voices in this Group.  When Robert's not here, how peaceful is it around
here??


> There is a wealth of knowledge in this group and it sometimes
> get lost in the flame wars.  If you really can't stomach Robert, just block
> his posts.  I couldn't take Paul, so I have him blocked, with his hundred
> monikers, but everyone else comes through.

I'm not blocking Robert.  I don't think Robert's blocking me.  When he
calls me a liar and accuses me of having a "sock puppet", I wanna know
so I can respond accordingly.  That response will be limited to asking
for proof.  It certainly won't offer anything in the way of
"retaliation".  Fair??


>
> Allan Waghalter
> Security Sure Alarm Company
> Houston, TX 77071
> www.securitysure.com
> 713-771-8887 - Fax: 713-776-3996


Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
604-518-5005