Re: EOLR Depate

["Aegis" <lordaegis@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Crash Gordon®" <NONE@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:kkG0e.31$j27.976@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
And how do you deal with the trouble signal...dispatch PD or service tech?

*** If armed, dispatch... If disarmed, CS should call them and ask if they
want a service tech dispatched.

Couldn't be gross negligence if it's commonly accepted practice.

***1. You aren't going to get the judge/jury to randomly drop into houses
and see what's there.
***2. The plaintiff WILL have an expert testify that EOLR placement is
commonly known and commonly ignored, which doesn't establish common
practice, but rather reveals professional neglect on a massive scale. Won't
help your defense though; just make you look that much more evil to the
jury.

I haven't seen eolr in the right place in a residence in years...not even
ADT does it anymore.

***Yes we do... Or, at least, I do.

In fact I don't even see them in the right place on commercial systems by
ADT. I'm not saying that makes it right, just that what becomes commonly
accepted practice couldn't be deemed gross negligence.

***That's just it. The customer doesn't know the resistors are in the panel.
So the commonly ACCEPTED part doesn't apply. If they knew, they wouldn't
accept.

I'm just being argumentative :-)

***Me too! :)

In high sec. residential I've run closed circuit switches with eolr at end
of multiple loop, then on the 2nd pair run 24 hr panic circuit through the
same loop zone.

***I haven't done residential in years.


"Aegis" <lordaegis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pcs0e.1199$oy3.715@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "Crash Gordon®" <NONE@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:wxn0e.1503$vB1.1142@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> yah, but with closed circuit switches what are you really protecting?..one
> leg of the loop?
>
> ***
> Well, let's see.. With the EOLR, on your NC loop (EOLR in series), the
> panel
> can see an OPEN, NORMAL, or a SHORT. Using common voltages, it could see
> 5V,
> 2.5V, or 0V (voltages vary from panel to panel so I'm using these).
>
> EOLR at EOL:
> 2.5V means all doors on the loop are closed.
> 5V means at least one door on the loop is open (or a wire fault if all
> doors
> are closed).
> 0V means trouble. With a resistor in series at the EOL, this condition can
> only exist if there is a wire fault [THIS is your supervision].
>
> Now let's see the possibilities with the EOLR at the panel:
> 2.5V - All doors closed / Normal
> 5V - At least one door open (or fault if all doors are closed)
> 0V - You can't ever get this with the resistor at the panel so it is blind
> to a shorted wire condition.  <--- !!!
>
> So you just took 3-state supervision down to 2-state. IF there were a
> short
> introduced on the wire, the end user would never know or be warned of what
> SHOULD have been a detectable fault. The loop will arm normally.
>
> The key here isn't the fact that you only lost supervision to a single
> type
> of fault, but that it was PREVENTABLE. Add to that the fact that the law
> says you are an expert and consumers are, by default, not experts, you put
> yourself into a situation where a jury could find you guilty of actually
> taking advantage of the unsuspecting public, when in fact you were merely
> being lazy and/or stupid. What's the difference? The word 'gross'. Neglect
> can cost you thousands; "gross" neglect can cost you millions. They can't
> squeeze water from a rock, but they CAN take 40% of your disposable income
> for the rest of your life.
>
> Likely? Perhaps not... But why risk it for a friggin' resistor?
> ***
>
> "Jackcsg" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:Go2dnf0cvp35nN_fRVn-og@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Thanks Ron. You're absolutely correct, and it's a good topic around
> > here.
> > They are not called "in the box resistors". But I would say at least 50%
> > of
> > the dealers just don't get it. (Just my opinion)
> >
> > <rwies@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:1143tnbacgj02a8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > EOLR Placement Debate
> > >
> > > I have been in the alarm industry for about 36 years now and over that
> > time
> > > I have witnessed many innovations.  One of these is the circuit
> > supervision
> > > provided by the end of line resistor.
> > >
> > > When I first entered the industry the EOLR was not necessary because
> > > we
> > used
> > > an end of line battery.  The circuit was automatically supervised.
> > > When
> > > technology moved the battery to the control panel this all changed.
> > > Since
> > > that time we have debated placement of the EOLR regularly.
> > >
> > > I have taught in my NTS classes that proper placement is critical.
> > Placing
> > > the EOLR on a terminal in the control panel is just, in my opinion
> > > wrong.
> > > The supervision is important and not hard to achieve.
> > >
> > > Well, now there is real evidence to support my position.  Please visit
> > > <http://www.securitysales.com/t_ci_articleView.cfm?aid=1926&sid=2>.
> > > This
> > is
> > > a story that appears in this months Security Sales magazine.  A woman
> > > died
> > > and proper placement of the EOLR would have probably saved her life.
> > >
> > > I don't know what more to say except do it right.  Protect your future
> > > and
> > > the future of your company or the company you work for.
> > >
> > > Ron Wies
> >
> >
>
>