Re: Re: Serial protocol questions

["DynamoBen" <ben@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Fair enough. I guess I'm going to have to read up on this 9bit address
thing. Its off to microchip.com for me.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Mc Alinden" <fmcalind@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial protocol questions


>
> Hi Ben
>            Just reading  this feature in the  16f628 manaul and it
seems
> to
> me that the master sends out the 9 Bit address first eight normal
address
> bits  the nineth bit if a 1 means an addr  and this interrupts the
pic(s)
> and they check to see if the addr  matches their addr if so watch for
data
> if not ignore any incoming data ...thats how i read it.....
> So Neils protocol pasted below looks good if 9bit is implemented
> ******************************************************
> dedicated micros
> 1    Address                Byte or Word    - Well not quite These
> particular bytes are actually 9 bits in size
> 2    Message Length    Byte
> 3    Data                     Variable size based on message length.
could
> be zero
> 4    Checksum
>
>
> Frank
>
> Frank
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DynamoBen" <ben@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial protocol questions
>
>
>>
>> So in 9 bit addressing...if I wanted the slave device address to
be 6
>> then
>> the master (bridge) would send 262? The slave would wait for 262
before
>> doing anyting.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "g8kmh" <lehane@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:10 AM
>> Subject: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial protocol questions
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > OK,
>> > I'm used to IBM Bi-sync and derivatives which put the CRC
after the
>> > ETX and here's no 'length' field in the header.
>> >
>> > The 9 bit address is quite useful and some CPU's have special
support
>> > for it. Maxim do an add-on (MAX3100) which helps reduce PIC
>> > overheads, see http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN1063.pdf
and here
>> > with code http://www.edn.com/article/CA179575.html
>> >
>> > At 38k4 and a maximum of 32 addresses then latency shouldn't
be a
>> > problem.
>> >
>> > Lehane
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx, "DynamoBen"
<ben@b...> wrote:
>> >> Excellent I'm with you on this. Sounds reasonable. The
only thing
>> > I'm
>> >> grappeling with is the 9 bit address...I'm not
understanding it
>> >> conceptually. This would mean making the Device address a
WORD
>> > variable
>> >> instead of a byte. Is that worth it?
>> >>
>> >> As far as the bridge protocol is everyone feeling
comfortable with
>> > it? Will
>> >> it be possible to create a xpl ethernet-->rs485 bridge
plug-in?
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Neil Wrightson" <neilw@n...>
>> >> To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:09 AM
>> >> Subject: RE: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial protocol questions
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Guys,
>> >> >
>> >> > The two protocols I originally listed are typically
for TWO
>> > different
>> >> > purposes
>> >> >
>> >> > The first protocol
>> >> > 1    Stx                        Byte,#02
>> >> > 2    Addr                      Byte 0..255    Note
Generally
>> > RS485 limits
>> >> > 32
>> >> > devices to be connected to the bus
>> >> > 3    Message Length     Byte              Allows
messages up to
>> > 256 -
>> >> > Message size
>> >> > 4    Command              Byte             
I.e.Clear LCD
>> > display, Obtain
>> >> > I/O status etc
>> >> > 5    Data if any             Variable size based on
message
>> > length. could
>> >> > be
>> >> > zero
>> >> > 6    Checksum             Byte              
Checksum of bytes
>> > from Stx to
>> >> > Checksum location minus 1
>> >> > 7    Etx                       Byte, #03
>> >> >
>> >> > Is good for PC to "Bridge" applications.
Normally I read in all
>> > bytes
>> >> > until
>> >> > the ETX is reached, check my STX to ETX length and
compare
>> > against the
>> >> > message length (Byte(3) and also check the Checksum.
This gives
>> > two forms
>> >> > of
>> >> > error checking Length and Checksum. The checksum is
just the
>> > addition of
>> >> > all
>> >> > bytes from STX to Checksum position -1.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The second protocol is GREAT for inter micro comms.
The Address is
>> >> > transmitted as a 9 bit byte. When the micro receives
a nine bit
>> > byte an
>> >> > interrupt is generated and the address is checked to
see if the
>> > message is
>> >> > intended for it. If the message is not intended for
it, it then
>> > goes off
>> >> > and
>> >> > has a scratch of it's bum or what ever else it wants
to do. If
>> > the message
>> >> > was intended for it, it then captures the rest of
the data. This
>> > really
>> >> > cuts
>> >> > down on the slaves processing of messages that are
not intended
>> > for it.
>> >> > The other reason for 9 bit addressing is that the
messages can be
>> > smaller
>> >> > i.e STX and ETX are not required. The address is the
STX (Syncing
>> >> > character)
>> >> > and address combined into one.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here the protocol is somewhat different because of
the features
>> > within the
>> >> > dedicated micros
>> >> > 1    Address                Byte or Word    - Well
not quite These
>> >> > particular bytes are actually 9 bits in size
>> >> > 2    Message Length    Byte
>> >> > 3    Data                     Variable size based on
message
>> > length. could
>> >> > be zero
>> >> > 4    Checksum
>> >> >
>> >> > The main reason that I suggested a 38400 baud rate
was because of
>> >> > potential
>> >> > latency problems. With the 485 network running at
this speed and
>> > only
>> >> > state
>> >> > changes being passed between the PC and xPLHAL I
think we would
>> > have quite
>> >> > good responses. The comms between the Bridge and
xPLHAL could
>> > also be
>> >> > lifted.
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as slave devices, I always said right from
the start I
>> > suggested
>> >> > that
>> >> > at least TWO devices be made one with LCD, IR Tx,Rx
for living
>> >> > room,Kitchen,
>> >> > Lounge etc the other without for toilet, kitchen
etc.
>> >> > Even the more advanced LCD unit would still have
some extra plug
>> > options
>> >> > i.e
>> >> > Audio.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > Neil Wrightson.
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: g8kmh [mailto:lehane@m...]
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, 25 January 2005 6:54 PM
>> >> > To: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> > Subject: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial protocol questions
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Not sure that's right - usually the message is
>> > <STX>message<ETX>CRC-16
>> >> > That way you know when to stop calculating the
checksum. You don't
>> >> > need an ETX after the checksum as it is always a
fixed length.
>> >> >
>> >> > CRC-16 isn't too difficult to do, whether it is
needed on a
>> > polling
>> >> > line is debatable - on a multi-master system, yes.
LRC-8 (XOR)
>> > would
>> >> > suffice.
>> >> >
>> >> > Lehane
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --- In ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx, "DynamoBen"
<ben@b...> wrote:
>> >> >> This is what xAP has to offer. I say we use a
similar model:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Basic Serial Transport Wrapper
>> >> >> The xAP transport wrapper for a basic serial
connection is
>> > defined
>> >> > as
>> >> >> follows:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   a.. The xAP message is prefixed with the ASCII
control
>> > character
>> >> > <STX>
>> >> >> (ASCII character decimal 2)
>> >> >>   b.. The core xAP message is transmitted. Any
instances of the
>> >> > <STX>
>> >> >> character and <ETX> character (ASCII
characters decimal 2 and
>> >> > decimal 3
>> >> >> respectively) are escaped by prefixing the
character with <ESC>
>> >> > (ASCII
>> >> >> character 27). i.e. an embedded <STX>  
becomes <ESC> <STX> and
>> > an
>> >> > embedded
>> >> >> <ETX> becomes <ESC> <ETX> .
This mechanism is defined here for
>> >> > completeness;
>> >> >> in practice it would be very unusual to transmit
non-printable
>> >> > characters as
>> >> >> part of a xAP message.
>> >> >>   c.. Instances of the <ESC> character 
(ASCII character 27) are
>> >> > also
>> >> >> escaped. i.e. <ESC>  becomes <ESC>
<ESC>. Again, it would be rare
>> >> > to embed
>> >> >> <ESC> characters within a xAP message in
practice.
>> >> >>   d.. At the end of the xAP message a 16-bit CRC
checksum is
>> >> > appended as
>> >> >> four ASCII-hex digits (ie. human readable, not
binary). The
>> >> > checksum is
>> >> >> applied to all data within the message envelope:
the <STX>,
>> >> > checksum itself,
>> >> >> and <ETX> character are not included in
the CRC calculation.  Hex
>> >> > digits A-F
>> >> >> are represented in upper case. Source code
examples illustrating
>> >> > the
>> >> >> calculation of 16-bit CRC checksums can be found
at
>> >> >> www.planetsourcecode.com.
>> >> >>   e.. If the checksum is not calculated, four
dashes (ASCII code
>> >> > decimal 45)
>> >> >> are substituted in its place.
>> >> >>   f.. The checksum is immediately followed by
<ETX> (ASCII
>> >> > character decimal
>> >> >> 3)
>> >> >> What I suggested is similar. The biggest
difference is the check
>> >> > sum. Here
>> >> >> they use 16-bit crc. To me this is way to much
math for a pic
>> >> > processor. I
>> >> >> say we just do a byte add and call it done.
>> >> >> In the version I sent out I included
<Command> based on Franks
>> >> > protocol. Is
>> >> >> it worth keeping?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW they refer to their protocol converter
(Master) as
>> > a "bridge."
>> >> > Not a bad
>> >> >> term inplace of master.
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "g8kmh" <lehane@m...>
>> >> >> To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:42 PM
>> >> >> Subject: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial protocol
questions
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --- In ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx,
"DynamoBen" <ben@b...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> BTW 1/8 fuses on the data line is
always a good idea.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Not sure what is being protected.. if I got
240v on the data
>> > line
>> >> >> > then some interfaces are dead and I need to
get the soldering
>> > iron
>> >> >> > out. If the fuses blow, the same (given the
space requirements
>> >> > they
>> >> >> > may be PCB mounted). OK, OK, it's easier to
swap a 1206 fuse...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My preference is zener clamping, spark gaps
and Varistors.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > In answer to some other questions  (not
Ben's):
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > EPC and ISO 18000-6 relate to RFID tags
which you'll see on all
>> >> >> > products as an adjunct and eventual
replacement of bar codes on
>> >> >> > everything.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > A standard ISO based magnetic (MSR) card
has three tracks
>> >> > containing
>> >> >> > various amounts of data. Track 2 on a
credit/debit card has the
>> >> > basic
>> >> >> > information, Track 1 usually has the
cardholder name and other
>> >> > info.
>> >> >> > Track 3 gets used by banks/ATM's.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > There are many barcode specifications - the
ones on baked beans
>> >> > are
>> >> >> > UPC/EAN but you'll find many others on
parcels,
>> > pharmaceuticals,
>> >> > etc.
>> >> >> > Off the shelf readers will read most of
them and tell you what
>> >> > type
>> >> >> > by a prefix character ahead of the data.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Digital input can easily handle switches
with some optional on
>> >> > board
>> >> >> > pull up resistors.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Lehane
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> From: "DynamoBen"
<ben@b...>
>> >> >> >> To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:53 PM
>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial
protocol questions
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > RS485 hubs are super easy to
build. In fact you could mock
>> > one
>> >> > up
>> >> >> > on a
>> >> >> >> > breadboard in under 30mins. (They
are generally called opto
>> >> >> > splitters)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Parts Needed:
>> >> >> >> > Several 75176 chips (less than 32)
>> >> >> >> > Several 6N137 chips (this is for
opto isloation)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Data path is RS485-->75176
Input-->6N137
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Then this would be repeated for
the outputs. Don't for get
>> > to
>> >> > tie
>> >> >> > TX to
>> >> >> >> > RX.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > This make sense?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> > From: "Frank Mc Alinden"
<fmcalind@b...>
>> >> >> >> > To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005
2:46 PM
>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [ukha_xpl] Re: Serial
protocol questions
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Hi Guys
>> >> >> >> >>        Have to agree with 
Lehane that its better to have
>> > lots
>> >> >> > of small
>> >> >> >> >> devices than to make one that
does all ...........
>> >> >> >> >> Would that mean then a rs485
hub would be required so that
>> > it
>> >> >> > could be
>> >> >> >> >> star
>> >> >> >> >> wired ??? anybody did a rs485
hub before ????
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Allowing the network to run at
different baud rates is a
>> > good
>> >> >> > idea
>> >> >> >> >> ,anything
>> >> >> >> >> i have done is 9600 , although
i dont think 19200 would be
>> > out
>> >> >> > of the
>> >> >> >> >> question for most pics...??
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The important thing to get
this project going i think is to
>> >> > get
>> >> >> > started
>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> the master device....
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Neil  do you have any current
hardware to develope a Master
>> >> >> > on ????
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> 2) Presumably the host
software will do the
>> > device/instance
>> >> > id-
>> >> >> >>node
>> >> >> >> >>> number conversion and the
device/instance config? - Don't
>> >> > know
>> >> >> > what this
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >>> yet ???
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Each node has a name / id and
its configurable , so when
>> > you
>> >> > put
>> >> >> > a new
>> >> >> >> >> device on the network it will
sent out regular
>> >> > requests "please
>> >> >> > configure
>> >> >> >> >> me" known as config
heartbeats....The master should pick up
>> >> > this
>> >> >> > message
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> pass it on to the xPL
network....In xPL Manager under xPL
>> >> >> >> >> devices,subfolder
>> >> >> >> >> awaiting configuration the
device should be listed
>> > clicking on
>> >> >> > it then
>> >> >> >> >> allows you to configure....The
config info would get send
>> > to
>> >> > the
>> >> >> > Master
>> >> >> >> >> which passes it on to the new
unit which would reconfigure
>> > its
>> >> >> > self and
>> >> >> >> >> immediately send out a regular
heartbeat.....
>> >> >> >> >> Hope that makes sense ??
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Frank
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> >> From: "Neil
Wrightson" <neilw@n...>
>> >> >> >> >> To: <ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 25,
2005 7:21 AM
>> >> >> >> >> Subject: RE: [ukha_xpl] Re:
Serial protocol questions
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Hi Lehane,
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 1) I made reference to the
compiler I use purely because
>> > it
>> >> > is
>> >> >> > a good
>> >> >> >> >>> compiler. Each different
type of slave could be a
>> > completely
>> >> >> > different
>> >> >> >> >> micro
>> >> >> >> >>> and language - assembler,
C, Basic Pascal etc etc. The
>> > main
>> >> >> > thing is
>> >> >> >> >>> that
>> >> >> >> >>> handles its own task and
interfaces to the required 485
>> >> > network
>> >> >> >> >>> protocol.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 2) Presumably the host
software will do the
>> > device/instance
>> >> > id-
>> >> >> >>node
>> >> >> >> >>> number conversion and the
device/instance config? - Don't
>> >> > know
>> >> >> > what this
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >>> yet ???
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 3) "Mmm!
>> >> >> >> >>> I'd caution against making
the devices too complex. Better
>> >> > have
>> >> >> > 10
>> >> >> >> >>> types (smaller/cheaper)
than 1 do-everything and they are
>> >> >> > likely to
>> >> >> >> >>> see the light of day
faster. You can always put
>> >> > two/three/four
>> >> >> > in one
>> >> >> >> >>> box." - Exactly
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 4) "So I'd go for:
>> >> >> >> >>> 1 n-way DC input (maybe
analogue) variations can include
>> >> > on/off,
>> >> >> >> >>> momentary, dimmer action,
etc.
>> >> >> >> >>> 2 n-way DC output (maybe
PWM on some for LED's)
>> > variations -
>> >> >> > opto,
>> >> >> >> >>> SSR, etc
>> >> >> >> >>> 3 LCD display driver
>> >> >> >> >>> 4 RFID (...and RFID to me
is EPC/ISO 18000)
>> >> >> >> >>> 5 Universal IR (UIRT on
485)
>> >> >> >> >>> 6 Dallas touch and/or one
wire sensors
>> >> >> >> >>> 7 MSR (Track 1/2/3)
>> >> >> >> >>> 8 Bar Code Reader
(UPC/EAN/ITF/Code 39)
>> >> >> >> >>> 9 Analog input/output
(0-5/10V)
>> >> >> >> >>> 10 .... "
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> A) I was thinking of
analogue inputs for switches etc,
>> > adds
>> >> >> > additional
>> >> >> >> >>> security to remote
switches I.e. window reed switches or
>> >> > PIR's
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> B) What is "EPC/ISO
18000"
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> C) What is MSR (Track
1/2/3)
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 5) "Agree on the
power to the unit, although 12-15V maybe
>> >> >> > sufficient as
>> >> >> >> >>> the power consumption is
going to be pretty low on most.
>> >> >> >> >>> Not sure about the
audio..I think that belongs on
>> > Ethernet in
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >>> digital domain. I guess
you're looking at voice/audio
>> >> > feedback
>> >> >> > but
>> >> >> >> >>> would you want output from
every device? Or would you
>> > command
>> >> >> > each
>> >> >> >> >>> amp on? "
>> >> >> >> >>> RS485 Cabling is generally
as per the old coax 10base2,
>> > one
>> >> >> > long line
>> >> >> >> >>> with
>> >> >> >> >>> terminators on either end.
>> >> >> >> >>> With up to 32 devices on
this line, that means 64
>> >> > connections,
>> >> >> > each with
>> >> >> >> >>> it's own voltage drop. The
higher you can have the supply
>> >> >> > voltage the
>> >> >> >> >>> less
>> >> >> >> >>> current in the supply
lines the less voltage drop on the
>> >> > cable
>> >> >> > and the
>> >> >> >> >> less
>> >> >> >> >>> impact of voltage drops on
the network connectors.
>> >> >> >> >>> A lot of filed devices
requires 12VDC so you would at
>> > least
>> >> >> > have to add
>> >> >> >> >> 50%
>> >> >> >> >>> i.e. 18VDC for the
interconnecting power supply. I know of
>> >> > lots
>> >> >> > of off
>> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >>> shelf 24VDC supplies out
there. But, I think that as long
>> > as
>> >> > we
>> >> >> > design
>> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >>> system so that it can
handle from 12..24VDC, we can leave
>> > it
>> >> > up
>> >> >> > to the
>> >> >> >> >>> individual.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 6) As far as the audio
goes, my intention was that we use
>> > the
>> >> >> > speaker
>> >> >> >> >>> out
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >>> the HA pc. Nothing fancy.
>> >> >> >> >>> I see this as been a
separate plug in add on board to the
>> >> > main
>> >> >> > slave
>> >> >> >> >>> terminal with a small amp
etc.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> 7) RS485 Comms Speed
>> >> >> >> >>> For each slave the master
must Tx a message and then Rx a
>> >> >> > message. 32
>> >> >> >> >> Slaves
>> >> >> >> >>> times * 2 * Packet size of
say ten characters = 640
>> > bytes. At
>> >> >> > 9600 baud
>> >> >> >> >> this
>> >> >> >> >>> would mean dial around
would take 1.5 seconds. In reality
>> >> > this
>> >> >> > would be
>> >> >> >> >>> somewhat longer with
internal delays etc. Hence the reason
>> >> > that
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> >> >> suggested
>> >> >> >> >>> 38400 baud. I know basic
chips may have issues with this.
>> >> > Again
>> >> >> > perhaps
>> >> >> >> >> user
>> >> >> >> >>> definable 9600/38400.
>> >> >> >> >>> Build the network to your
own needs.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Neil.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> written in a completely
differant language or
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Regards,
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Neil Wrightson.
>> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> >>> From: g8kmh [mailto:lehane@m...]
>> >> >> >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 25 January
2005 12:46 AM
>> >> >> >> >>> To: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>> Subject: [ukha_xpl] Re:
Serial protocol questions
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I've dropped my response
in below.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Lehane
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> --- In ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx,
"Neil Wrightson"
>> >> > <neilw@n...>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>> > Hi Guys,
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > 1) I'm all for a
combined project.
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > 2) I don't want to
start another mine is better than
>> > yours
>> >> >> >> >>> discussion, but,
>> >> >> >> >>> > I use AVR's :) I have
a great compiler AVRCo with true
>> >> >> > multitasking
>> >> >> >> >>> etc
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> To some extent it is
irrelevent to most end-users. Few are
>> >> >> > going to
>> >> >> >> >>> change code, some will
want prog'ed devices and most a kit
>> >> > (or
>> >> >> > at
>> >> >> >> >>> least PCB and CPU).
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> The protocol outline is
doable across a wide range of
>> >> > devices,
>> >> >> > indeed
>> >> >> >> >>> it needs to be
interoperable.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > 3) I think that a
dedicated 485 network controller will
>> > be
>> >> >> >> >>> required. I think
>> >> >> >> >>> > the 485 comms will
probably run about 38400 baud.
>> >> >> >> >>> >     A 16MHz AVR will
happily look after this.
>> >> >> >> >>> >     The network
controller will pass and receive all
>> > state
>> >> >> > changes
>> >> >> >> >>> to the PC
>> >> >> >> >>> > as well as heart
beats for each device.
>> >> >> >> >>> >     Comms to the PC
could be 9600.
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> A separate controller has
some advantages of redundancy
>> > and
>> >> >> >> >>> interfacing with Win* or
*nix.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> With xPL not on the wire
then heartbeats can be different
>> >> >> > internally
>> >> >> >> >>> to externally.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Presumably the host
software will do the device/instance
>> > id-
>> >> >> >>node
>> >> >> >> >>> number conversion and the
device/instance config?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> > 4) I envisage that
there be at least two types of room
>> >> >> > controllers
>> >> >> >> >>> (Perhaps
>> >> >> >> >>> > we should start by
settling on some names for these
>> > things)
>> >> >> >> >>> >     a)
Bedroom/kitchen/Living area Controller wish list
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Display,
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Personnel
Switches for lights, sound muting etc,
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Data entry
method, Set room alarm clock time etc
>> >> >> > Sleep time
>> >> >> >> >>> for
>> >> >> >> >>> > lighting etc
>> >> >> >> >>> >         IR
Transmitter, Turn telly off when I fall
>> > asleep
>> >> > in
>> >> >> > bed,
>> >> >> >> >>> turn
>> >> >> >> >>> > ceiling fan off etc
etc
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Personal ID
method
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Sound
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Movement
sensor interface
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Switch inputs
for door & window reed switches
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> >     b) Basic room as
in garage/toilet/bathroom wish list
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Personnel
Switches for lights etc,
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Sound
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Movement
sensor interface
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Switch inputs
for door & window reed switches
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Note - This
is to be a cheaper version, no
>> > display
>> >> >> > only
>> >> >> >> >>> beeper for
>> >> >> >> >>> > sound alerts, maybe a
IR receiver for configuration ??
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > Hardware Solutions
for above
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Display,
>> >> >> >> >>> > 16*2 LCD with LED
backlight OR maybe a small graphic
>> > LCD,
>> >> >> > could
>> >> >> >> >>> display
>> >> >> >> >>> > small icons for
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > you have email, voice
messages, phone callers etc.
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Personnel
Switches for lights
>> >> >> >> >>> etc,                      
      2..4
>> >> >> >> >>> > Tactile switches I.e.
small PCB mount
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Light Control
>> >> >> >> >>> > either 240V relay or
triac, triac allows dimming, great
>> > for
>> >> >> > those
>> >> >> >> >>> wee stops
>> >> >> >> >>> > in the night
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Data entry
method,
>> >> >> >> >>> > Universal TV remote.
I can currently decode Sony or RC5
>> >> >> > signals
>> >> >> >> >>> >         IR
Transmitter
>> >> >> >> >>> > IR led on controller
as well as capability to add an
>> >> > external
>> >> >> > IR
>> >> >> >> >>> led else
>> >> >> >> >>> > where in the room
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > for better coverage
if needed, I.e. Living room with
>> >> > external
>> >> >> > LED
>> >> >> >> >>> for Stereo
>> >> >> >> >>> > etc.
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Personal ID
method
>> >> >> >> >>> > Dallas 1 wire
ibutton, A lot cheaper & smaller than
>> > RFID!
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Sound
>> >> >> >> >>> > 2 Types, 1) Standard
beeper. 2) Optional 1W speaker with
>> >> > sound
>> >> >> >> >>> relaying from
>> >> >> >> >>> > controller Pc
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> > Probably a separate
optional PCB.
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Movement
sensor
>> >> >> >> >>> interface                 
                  As
>> >> >> >> >>> > suggested either a
integrated unit actually on the
>> >> > controller
>> >> >> > or a
>> >> >> >> >>> separate
>> >> >> >> >>> > security PIR
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Switch inputs
for door & window reed switches
>> >> >> >> >>> Standard style
>> >> >> >> >>> > of inputs on a micro
5..12V tolerant.
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> >         Power Supply
and Signal
>> >> >> >> >>> >             I suggest
that we use CAT5
>> >> >> >> >>> >             Power - 2
Pairs 1 pair for 0V and one pair
>> > for
>> >> >> > +24V.
>> >> >> >> >>> >             Comms
Signal  - 1 Pair
>> >> >> >> >>> >             Audio
from PC - 1 Pair
>> >> >> >> >>> >             If we try
to use the standard pin outs for
>> >> > power
>> >> >> > over
>> >> >> >> >>> Ethernet
>> >> >> >> >>> > and data signals,
nothing will be damaged if
>> >> >> >> >>> >             a wrong
device is plugged in somewhere.
>> >> >> >> >>> >             Although,
I did see these devices as being
>> >> > panel
>> >> >> >> >>> mounted on the
>> >> >> >> >>> > walls.
>> >> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >> >>> Mmm!
>> >> >> >> >>> I'd caution against making
the devices too complex. Better
>> >> > have
>> >> >> > 10
>> >> >> >> >>> types (smaller/cheaper)
than 1 do-everything and they are
>> >> >> > likely to
>> >> >> >> >>> see the light of day
faster. You can always put
>> >> > two/three/four
>> >> >> > in one
>> >> >> >> >>> box.
>> >> >> >> >>> So I'd go for:
>> >> >> >> >>> 1 n-way DC input (maybe
analog) variations can include
>> >> > on/off,
>> >> >> >> >>> momentary, dimmer action,
etc.
>> >> >> >> >>> 2 n-way DC output (maybe
PWM on some for LED's)
>> > variations -
>> >> >> > opto,
>> >> >> >> >>> SSR, etc
>> >> >> >> >>> 3 LCD display driver
>> >> >> >> >>> 4 RFID (...and RFID to me
is EPC/ISO 18000)
>> >> >> >> >>> 5 Universal IR (UIRT on
485)
>> >> >> >> >>> 6 Dallas touch and/or one
wire sensors
>> >> >> >> >>> 7 MSR (Track 1/2/3)
>> >> >> >> >>> 8 Bar Code Reader
(UPC/EAN/ITF/Code 39)
>> >> >> >> >>> 9 Analog input/output
(0-5/10V)
>> >> >> >> >>> 10 ....
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Agree on the power to the
unit, although 12-15V maybe
>> >> >> > sufficient as
>> >> >> >> >>> the power consumption is
going to be pretty low on most.
>> >> >> >> >>> Not sure about the
audio..I think that belongs on
>> > Ethernet in
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >>> digital domain. I guess
you're looking at voice/audio
>> >> > feedback
>> >> >> > but
>> >> >> >> >>> would you want output from
every device? Or would you
>> > command
>> >> >> > each
>> >> >> >> >>> amp on?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk
>> >> > <http://www.xplproject.org.uk>
>> >> >> > < http://www.xplproject.org.uk <http://www.xplproject.org.uk>
>
>> >> >> >> >>> http://www.xplhal.com <http://www.xplhal.com>  <
>> >> > http://www.xplhal.com <http://www.xplhal.com> >
>> >> >> > http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk>
>> >> >> >> >>> < http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk> >
>> >> >> >> >>> To Post a Message:
ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>> To Subscribe: 
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>> >> >> >> >>> To Unsubscribe: 
ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>   _____
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> * To visit your group on
the web, go to:
>> >> >> >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_xpl/
>> >> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_xpl/>
>> >> >> >> >>> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_xpl/
>> >> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_xpl/>
>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> * To unsubscribe from this
group, send an email to:
>> >> >> >> >>>
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>> >> >> >> >>> <mailto:ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx?
>> >> >> > subject=Unsubscribe>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> * Your use of Yahoo!
Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>> > Terms of
>> >> >> > Service
>> >> >> >> >>> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> [Non-text portions of this
message have been removed]
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk
>> >> > <http://www.xplproject.org.uk> 
http://www.xplhal.com
>> >> > <http://www.xplhal.com>
>> >> >> >> >> http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk>
>> >> >> >> >>> To Post a Message:
ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>> To Subscribe: 
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>> >> >> >> >>> To Unsubscribe: 
ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk
>> >> > <http://www.xplproject.org.uk> 
http://www.xplhal.com
>> >> > <http://www.xplhal.com>
>> >> >> >> >> http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk>
>> >> >> >> >> To Post a Message:
ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> To Subscribe: 
ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: 
ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk
>> >> > <http://www.xplproject.org.uk> 
http://www.xplhal.com
>> >> > <http://www.xplhal.com>
>> >> >> >> > http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk>
>> >> >> >> > To Post a Message:
ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> > To Subscribe: 
ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> > To Unsubscribe: 
ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk
>> > <http://www.xplproject.org.uk>
>> >> > http://www.xplhal.com <http://www.xplhal.com>
>> >> >> > http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk>
>> >> >> > To Post a Message: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> > To Subscribe:  ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> > To Unsubscribe: 
ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk
>> > <http://www.xplproject.org.uk>
>> >> > http://www.xplhal.com <http://www.xplhal.com>
>> > http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk
>> >> > <http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk>
>> >> > To Post a Message: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> > To Subscribe:  ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> > To Unsubscribe:  ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >  _____
>> >> >
>> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_xpl/
>> >> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_xpl/>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>> >> >
>> >> >
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>> > Service
>> >> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk http://www.xplhal.com
>> >> > http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk
>> >> > To Post a Message: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> >> > To Subscribe:  ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
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>> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk http://www.xplhal.com
>> > http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk
>> > To Post a Message: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> > To Subscribe:  ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
>> > To Unsubscribe:  ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk http://www.xplhal.com
> http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk
>> To Post a Message: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
>> To Subscribe:  ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
>> To Unsubscribe:  ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> xPL Links: http://www.xplproject.org.uk http://www.xplhal.com
> http://www.xpl.myby.co.uk
> To Post a Message: ukha_xpl@xxxxxxx
> To Subscribe:  ukha_xpl-subscribe@xxxxxxx
> To Unsubscribe:  ukha_xpl-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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