RE: Best approach to HA for lighting control

[Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

*** Disclaimer *** - I am NOT an electrician...

As long as it's safe and compliant with regs, you can locate units pretty
much anywhere you want...

Most of the "output" units, - dimmer & relay modules etc.
*are* DIN units,
and are designed for mounting in a DIN enclosure... In my case, I purchased
a number of fairly cheap B&Q consumer units.. I have 2 in the cellar, 2
in
the loft, and one secured to the back of an office desk in my study - you
just need to be able to get the CBUS network cable to the unit to get it
communicating, and you *could* supply the power to the module from a local
13A wall socket - which I have done in the case of the module in my
study..=
.
- in both other cases the modules are "properly" wired into
either the
lighting or socket house circuits as appropriate... - A decent DIN
enclosur=
e
is definitely a help, - as there's quite a lot of commonning (is that a
word?) required in the wiring, and it's helpful to have an Earth common
bar=
,
and a Neutral common bar...

The choice of relay or dimmer is up to your requirements... I started off
with dimmers for most of my lighting circuits, but then I decided to change
as many of my lights as possible to LED bulbs, and as a consequence I had
t=
o
change them onto relay modules instead... Relays are also a little more
robust; dimmers have more sensitive electronics when can get damaged... -
O=
n
that topic, I believe it is also a good idea to put an MCB on the output
side of each channel (i.e. between the CBUS module & the load), and
also to
put an isolation breaker on the input...

Therefore most of my enclosures are wired thus:

---incoming mains---double-pole breaker----CBUS Module----Channel1---
MCB---Load
=20
Channel2--- MCB---Load
=20
Channel3--- MCB---Load
=20
Channel4--- MCB---Load

Doing this allows you to fully isolate any individual load without
affectin=
g
any others, which can be a boon, and it also allows you to fully isolate
th=
e
entire enclosure for safety when you need to work inside the panel...

If you really need dimmers on some lights in a room, then you invariably
en=
d
up buying more "channels" than you initially need.. - don't worry
about
that, they WILL come in useful later! - In a typical room in my house, I
usually ended needing "some" dimmer channels, and
"some" relay channels...
and it was rarely the case that I needed 4 of each... - I think in one case
I only needed 2 of each, but since there aren=92t any mixed units, I ended
=
up
having to buy a 4-ch dimmer, and a 4-ch relay, and initially only using
hal=
f
of them...  If you can "make do" without dimmers (and depending
on what you
need to drive, there might not be a choice...) then you may be able to be
more efficient with your utilisation of the channels, and thus optimise the
modules you need to buy.. If cost is important, that can help a lot..

Having said all that, I know there *are* individual non DIN units
available=
,
but I pretty much discounted them, as when I was purchasing, it worked out
quite a bit more expensive when calculated per-channel than using a 4-ch or
8-ch DIN module... - A rough example I seem to recall was that a 4-ch relay
unit was somewhere in the region of =A3330, but the individual units were
about =A3150 each... - which works out to be quit a difference in
per-chann=
el
cost... Also I believe there are no single channel dimmers... - so my
advic=
e
is definitely to stick to the DIN mount modules, either 4 or 8 channel... -
I believe the economics get better the more channels there are in any given
module...

HTH

Paul G



-----Original Message-----
From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
James Reed
Sent: 24 May 2012 22:37
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Best approach to HA for lighting control

Hi

Thanks very much for this Paul, this is encouraging!

I've had a look at some of the websites which sell C-bus kit but I'm having
a little difficulty in working out what's what. So if I wanted to do as you
suggest on a room-by-room basis, what sort of thing would I need? I was
thinking of either a dimmer or a switched relay for the lights. Would it
need to be a DIN based unit, and if so would this need to be mounted away
from the lights or is there some alternative?

thanks

James

On 24/05/2012 8:41 PM, Paul Gordon wrote:
>
> James,
>
> The scenario you describe is exactly the same as mine....
>
> YES, you absolutely can install CBUS piecemeal... - you can start
off=20
> with nothing more than a relay or dimmer module to control some=20
> load(s), and a wall switch to control it, and a run of CAT5 between=20
> them... that little would give you a functioning CBUS system -=20
> notwithstanding a few caveats; you wouldn't have a friendly way to=20
> commission the units & do any programming, but they do have a
"learn"=20
> mode for precisely this scenario.. - you would also have to ensure=20
> that the output unit you selected first (dimmer or relay module)
was=20
> equipped with a CBUS power supply (not all are)....
>
> I would highly recommend the wired CBUS solution... it is 100% rock=20
> solid, well known, well supported, and likely to be around for a while
yet.
> It can
> be integrated with the CBUS wireless kit, - as well as a host of
other=20
> 3rd party products such as Comfort...
>
> I would recommend that as you renovate each room, you install a run
of=20
> proper CBUS pink CAT5 cable into every wallswitch backbox (that
pink=20
> CAT5 cable is certified for use inside the same enclosure where
mains=20
> is present, ordinary computer CAT5 cable is not). Take each run
from=20
> each wallswitch back to either a single central location - if
possible=20
> - since it is more convenient that way, - or if that's difficult,
at=20
> least to as few points as possible. Note that CBUS does NOT enforce=20
> any rigid toplogy for its wired network... you can use bus or star=20
> topology, or indeed a completely random mix of the two...
>
> I have done all my own CBUS installation and programming myself... -
I=20
> did go on an official Clipsal training course a few years ago, but=20
> honestly, if you are at least reasonably competent with wiring=20
> electrics, it really isn't that difficult... and there's plenty of=20
> people on this list who have done the same (even one or two who
have=20
> worked for the company!), so there's no shortage of help &
expertise=20
> available here... - you definitely don't
> *need*
> to hire a specialist if you don't want to, - but do refer back to
my=20
> point about how comfortable you are with your own level of=20
> competence... - in my experience, I found that "general
electricians"=20
> were pretty much hopeless...
> most had never heard of or seen CBUS - or any similar such HA
system,=20
> and were pretty much flummoxed by the wiring requirements for it -=20
> until I showed them!
>
> As I think you have realised, CBUS is a proper tried & trusted
system,=20
> and you are paying a little more for the reliability... My opinion
is=20
> that it is worth it for the peace of mind... my mantra these days
is=20
> "to buy cheap is to buy twice"...
>
> HTH
>
> Paul G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>=20
> [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>]
On=20
> Behalf Of James Reed
> Sent: 24 May 2012 19:14
> To: Ukha_D@xxxxxxx <mailto:Ukha_D%40Yahoogroups.Com>
> Subject: [ukha_d] Best approach to HA for lighting control
>
> Hi
>
> I'm in the middle of buying a house, which is a largish Victorian
terrace=
.
> It needs a lot of work but we are going to have to do it in stages=20
> because we can't afford a full scale renovation in one go - and
anyway=20
> we have to live in it!
>
> I'd love to embed some HA really to do lighting control to begin
with=20
> although I'd like to extend it to other things in due course. I've
got=20
> some Homeeasy products at the moment, and although I found the=20
> switched sockets good the lighting modules / dimmers have been=20
> unreliable and I'm not really satisfied with it as a permanent /
long=20
> term solution. Also I hear that lightwaverf has similar issues and
it=20
> does not seem to be well supported either.
>
> I've looked at things like c-bus wireless which looks much better
but=20
> is expensive. Ideally I would like to use a wired solution with
cat5=20
> everywhere, and this may prove possible but it would have to be
done=20
> room by room.
>
> If I was going to use c-bus could I do it on a piecemeal basis or=20
> would it need to be done in one go? ALso do I need a specialist=20
> installer or could it be done diy or with help from a general=20
> electrician? Are there any other systems I should consider? I don't=20
> have much budget for this so would prefer to be cheaper if poss but=20
> I'm aware that you get what you pay for and I've not found HE that=20
> good even though it was cheap.
>
> I'd be grateful for any thoughts
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>=20



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------