Re: Lighting Design for Kitchen

["Tracey Gardner" <tracey.gardner@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello Andy

Are these really transformers, in the proper sense of the word or are they
"electronic transformers"

Tracey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Walker" <andrew.walker@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for Kitchen


> Ben,
>
> I can highly recommend the Varilight transformers which work with my
CBUS
> dimmers.
>
> I have bought both from 1stopelectrics http://tinyurl.com/96aqhc     250W
> £14.34
>
> and tlc-direct http://tinyurl.com/9fghda 250W
£14.10
>
> They also do 50, 70, 105 and 150W.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Paul Gale
> Sent: 29 December 2008 16:44
> To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for Kitchen
>
> I have a range of existing and new transformers from electronic to
wire
> wound (for the high wire etc) - all work fine. Can't remember the
make,
> but the new ones were good quality brand names.
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf
>> Of Ben McCormack
>> Sent: 29 December 2008 16:29
>> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for Kitchen
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> I will take a closer look at their products.
>>
>> Out of interest what transformers do you use with lv and cbus?
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On 29 Dec 2008, at  15:39, Paul Gale wrote:
>>
>> > I bought them through a reseller before I realised I could
deal
>> > direct with them (through my company) - you may also be able
to do
>> > the same. They were VERY helpful and loaned me several
fixtures so I
>> > could decide (these were stair lights).
>> >
>> > Price was a LOT more than the Aurora units but quality is
>> > significantly higher - a lot of people don't rate Aurora at
all -
>> > they are significantly cheaper and lower quality. Depends
what you
>> > want though. I can't remember what I paid but probably in the
region
>> > of £20 per unit + transformer + lamp
>> >
>> > Paul.
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On
>> > Behalf
>> > > Of Ben McCormack
>> > > Sent: 29 December 2008 14:12
>> > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> > > Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for Kitchen
>> > >
>> > > Paul
>> > >
>> > > Looking at the calculations again I come up with 9 50w
lights
>> needed
>> > > to cover the kitchen. Thats in a basic grid pattern. Now
I will
>> want
>> > > to add some more lights over the Aga and Island unit. So
this
>> > > would give me a total of 12 lights in the ceiling.
>> > >
>> > > I will also have the under cabinet mini fluorescent
tubes and I
>> > > can put there directly onto the 12 Ch Relay
>> > >
>> > > There is also a dining area that is 3.5 * 5.1. So lets
assume 8
>> > lights
>> > > in this area.
>> > >
>> > > Currently I have the following dimmers
>> > >
>> > > 8Ch - 1 Amp per Ch
>> > > 4Ch - 2 Amp per Ch
>> > > 4Ch - 5 Amp per Ch
>> > >
>> > > So using 50w Bulbs I can have 4 dimmed per 1 Amp
Channel.
>> > >
>> > > Kitchen
>> > >
>> > > 4 Zones in the kitchen
>> > > 3 * 4 50w Downlighters
>> > > 1 * Relay for under cabinet
>> > >
>> > > Dining Area
>> > >
>> > > 4 Zones in Dining Area
>> > > 2 * 4 50w Downlighters
>> > > 1 * Light above the table
>> > > 1 * Relay for lamp sockets on sideboard
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Paul - How much are the fittings from the Light
Corporation.
>> > >
>> > > From Aurora I can get the following
>> > >
>> > > http://www.aurora-
>> > > lighting.com/ProductPages/LampProductDetails.aspx?
>> > g=2952&c=81&b=71&oc=8
>> > > 1
>> > > For £3.76 each
>> > >
>> > > Ben
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 29 Dec 2008, at 13:08, Paul Gale wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Oh, and you obviously need to think about placement
- do you
>> > have a
>> > > > dining table or breakfast bar etc in there? Is it
moveable? Is
>> the
>> > > > positioning of the fittings flexible enough to cope
with a re-
>> > layout
>> > > > of the furniture (as has happened to me several
times after
>> > > > installation).
>> > > >
>> > > > If you go with tiltable fittings, this gives some
level of
>> control
>> > > > over the direction of the light (within limits of
the fitting).
>> > > > I specified the Sunbeam fittings from the light
corporation for
>> > all of
>> > > > the downlights I was fitting or replacing (about 40
IIRC) - was
>> > > > a good move as they allowed "fine tuning"
of the light position
>> > > > to
>> > get
>> > > > the best result. They are obviously more expensive
though - but
>> if
>> > > > you've gone to the expense of CBus, it's got to be
worth it!? :)
>> > > >
>> > > > Paul.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx]
>> > > > > On
>> > > > Behalf
>> > > > > Of Ben McCormack
>> > > > > Sent: 29 December 2008 12:02
>> > > > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for
Kitchen
>> > > > >
>> > > > > All
>> > > > >
>> > > > > With regard to required light levels I think I
am getting
>> > somewhere
>> > > > > with the American regulations
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> http://www.redwoodcity.org/cds/building/pdf/handouts/Electrical/kitche
>> n
>> > > > > _lighting_requirements.pdf
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "A design recommendation may be to
utilize the Illuminating
>> > > > > Engineering Society of North America (IESNA)
guidelines that
>> > > > > at least 30
>> > footcandles of
>> > > > > light be
>> > > > > provided for seeing tasks in kitchens'
>> > > > >
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >
>> > > > > One footcandle â?? 10.764 lux.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This gives a recommended lux level of 320.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Now with 20W bulbs I need 20 Lights and with
50w bulbs I need
>> > > > > 9 Lights.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Ben
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 29 Dec 2008, at 11:52, Ben McCormack wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Paul
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I have been looking at the Light
Corporation for a while.
>> They
>> > > are
>> > > > > > based just down the road from me.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I was also looking at Jonh Cullen but as
you say they are
>> > > > expensive
>> > > > > > and also design to use their own
fittings, this pushes the
>> > cost
>> > > > up.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The only thing I can't currently work out
is the required
>> > > > illuminance
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 320 lux Recommended office lighting
(Australia)[8] 400 lux
>> > > > > > Sunrise or sunset on a clear day.
Well-lit office
>> > area.
>> > > > > > 500 lux Lighting level for an office
according to the
>> European
>> > > law
>> > > > > UNI
>> > > > > > EN 12464
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > If I go with 500lux I end up with 25
lights just in the
>> > ceiling
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Drop that down to 320lux and it comes out
at 16 fittings.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Ben
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 29 Dec 2008, at 10:48, Paul Gale
wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi Ben,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I think you're doing the right thing
designing yourself -
>> > > > > > > I
>> > > > used a
>> > > > > > > "medium" level designer
from John Cullen Lighting in
>> > London but
>> > > > > > > really did most of it myself anyway
when I was speaking to
>> > her!
>> > > > > > > Wasted cash in my case (about
£500 IIRC) - that was for
>> > the new
>> > > > > > loft
>> > > > > > > office and stair wells.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > 25 fittings is a LOT!, but if a load
of them are task/
>> > uplights/
>> > > > > > > effect then that's closer. Still,
they'll cost a fortune
>> > with
>> > > > > > > associated CBus dimmers and
transformers, fittings and
>> > > > > > > good
>> > > > quality
>> > > > > > > lamps! I'd say, get that number down
a bit if you can.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If they're 50W halogen, running
costs would also be a
>> factor
>> > > you
>> > > > > > > shouldn't ignore.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Do use a high quality lamp though -
I used Bell Aluminium
>> > > > halogen
>> > > > > > > 5000hr dichroic lamps with a range
of beam angles. They
>> also
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > > the benefit of throwing most of the
heat forwards, so
>> > reducing
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > fire risk and melting of
fitting/transformer etc behind!
>> > Good
>> > > > > > > quality lamps make a big difference
to the quality of
>> > light and
>> > > > > life
>> > > > > > > of the lamp.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I replaced most of my downlights
with a "dark" effect
>> > halogen
>> > > > - has
>> > > > > > > a black ring baffle inside the body
before the lamp to
>> > reduce
>> > > > > > > horizontal glare. This is nice as it
adds a real feeling
>> > > > > > > of "designed" lighting - a
lot less eye drawing glare on
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > ceiling,
>> > > > > > > more "pools" of light in
carefully chosen places etc.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Also consider the angle of beam of
the lamp - you can do
>> > some
>> > > > great
>> > > > > > > things with really narrow beams to
illuminate smaller
>> items/
>> > > > areas
>> > > > > > > and use the light as a effect light.
Also coloured
>> > > > > > > filters/
>> > > > dichroic
>> > > > > > > lenses can be fun.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > These are the range I used for my
replacement and new
>> > > > downlights:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > http://www.lightcorporation.com/cat/downlights.php
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Also used these in the loft shower
room which look pretty
>> > > > funky -
>> > > > > > > really well made solid aluminium
turned fittings - top
>> > quality:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > http://www.lightcorporation.com/cat/cam50.php
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I also used a number of colour
changeable LED marker/
>> > uplights
>> > > > from:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > http://www.abstractavr.com/
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I used a custom version of:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > http://www.abstractavr.com/steplights/
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > with 1W RGB LED's in, driven from a
DMX capable LED driver.
>> > > I've
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > > > programmed them up yet, but will
eventually be controlled
>> > via
>> > > > CBus
>> > > > > > > and Kevin's xAP/HV/CBus gateway (fab
bit of kit!)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > HTH?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Paul.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> > [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx]
>> > > On
>> > > > > > >> Behalf
>> > > > > > >> Of Ben McCormack
>> > > > > > >> Sent: 29 December 2008 10:05
>> > > > > > >> To: UKHA Mailinglist; UK
Selfbuild
>> > > > > > >> Subject: [ukha_d] Lighting
Design for Kitchen
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> All
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I have started looking into the
lighting design for the
>> > > > kitchen.
>> > > > > > The
>> > > > > > >> space is quite large 4.5 * 5.5m
and all of the lighting
>> > will
>> > > be
>> > > > > > >> controlled by cbus dimmers.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I have considered using a
lighting designer but thought I
>> > > would
>> > > > > > >> have a
>> > > > > > >> go myself last night.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> The plan is to have low voltage
halogens in the ceiling
>> and
>> > > > then
>> > > > > > task
>> > > > > > >> lights under the cabinets.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> So I started by finding that
Aurora seem to produce nice
>> > > > fittings
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > >> transformers at a reasonable
price. (http://www.aurora-
>> > > > > lighting.com/
>> > > > > > )
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I then found Relux which is a
lighting design program.
>> > Aurora
>> > > > > > produce
>> > > > > > >> the specifications for each and
every one of their
>> fittings
>> > > > that
>> > > > > > >> feeds
>> > > > > > >> into Relux. (http://www.relux.biz/) The software is
free
>> to
>> > > > > > download
>> > > > > > >> and not too difficult to get
your head around.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> So I chose a standard Aurora
fitting and put all of the
>> > room
>> > > > > > details
>> > > > > > >> into Relux.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> You can also add things like
windows and different
>> finished
>> > > > on the
>> > > > > > >> floor and walls.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Fitting - http://www.aurora-
>> > > > > > >>
lighting.com/ProductPages/LampProductDetails.aspx?
>> > > > > > >>
g=2951&c=6&b=71&oc=81
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> There are a couple of factors
that affect the calculation
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Maintenance Factor - I assume
this is used for commercial
>> > > > > > >> installations where Maintenance
and blown bulbs can be a
>> > major
>> > > > > > issue.
>> > > > > > >> I set this to 1.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Illuminance Required - After
digging around I left this
>> set
>> > > > at 500
>> > > > > > >> lx.
>> > > > > > >> This seems to be a reasonable
figure to use.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> The end result of this is 25
Light fittings in this space.
>> > > > Spaced
>> > > > > > >> on a
>> > > > > > >> 1m grid.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> So how does this compare with
other people who have
>> > fitted low
>> > > > > > >> voltage
>> > > > > > >> in the kitchen. It seems rather
a lot of light fittings
>> > to me?
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Regards
>> > > > > > >> Ben
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
------------------------------------
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
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